Butterfly knot history

[agent_smith]

The historical evidence of the Butterfly knot (Linemans rider or Linemans loop) has been difficult to trace.

We know of Henry Bushby's 1902 private journal where drawings were found of the 'Butterfly' (but unamed).

We know of AA Burger's publication in 1914.

I found 'The Linemans Handbook' 1928 by Edwin Kurtz - but you guessed it, no Butterfly knot. Given the references to lineman and the telegraph industry, I had hoped to find evidence of its use - but nothing.

Link to 3rd Ed: The lineman's handbook : Kurtz, Edwin Bernard, 1894- : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Here is a list of early publications I found that had the Butterfly knot:

Rope and Its Uses (Extension bulletin 24, Iowa State College) Burger 1914

Knots Useful and Ornamental George Shaw 1924

Knots for Climbers (The Alpine Journal Vol 40) Wright & Magowan 1928

Encyclopedia of Knots and Fancy Rope work Raoul Graumont and John Hensel 1939

Ashley Book of Knots Clifford Ashley 1944

Handbook of Knots Raoul Graumont 1945

The Art of Knotting & Splicing Cyrus L Day 1947 (1st Ed)

Knots for Mountaineering Phil D Smith 1953

Ropes Knots and Slings for Climbers Walt Wheelock 1960

NOTE: One of Dan's favourite authors (Raoul Gramont) published it in 1945! I'm sure Dan has a copy of this book

...

I've looked in all the old seamanship books going right back to 1627... but nothing.

George Shaw (1924) refers to it as a 'Lineman's knot'.

Burger's work wasn't a standalone book about knots, it was published in an Agricultural bulletin. So maybe George Shaw has the 'Butterfly knot' in the first book dedicated to knots?

Link: knots useful and ornamental : george russell shaw : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

If anyone has any historical information prior to AA Burger or Henry Bushby, please report here...

[Dennis_Pence]

@agent_smith

Henry Bushby

Just a note about Henry Bushby. If you check the Mariner's Museum explanations:

Henry Bushby's "Notes on Knots" Manuscript - The Mariners' Museum Online Catalog

you find that he began working on his private notes in 1902, but he kept working on them until his death in 1926. It is impossible to know the exact year he did any particular drawing. It is clear that he sometimes went back to earlier volumes to cross things out and make additions. It would be more accurate to date Bushby's work as 1902-1926. Since the Butterfly Knot appears in Volume One, it probably is in the early range of this, but it is impossible to know.

[Dennis_Pence]

I have a copy of the book Handbook of Knots by Raoul Gramont, 1945.

Unfortunately, he gets some things wrong. Here is Fig. 134 for what he calls the Lineman's Knot.

The description seems to imply that he is either tying what Wright-Magowan call a Half Hitch Noose or he needs the free end to do the interlacing.

"Fig. 134: The Lineman's Knot is tied by forming a bight, then putting a half hitch around the bight from both sides with the free end of the rope with the hitches interlacing. Mountain climbers call this a butterfly knot. It is used by the middle man on the line of a three-man climbing team."

See also his Fig. 313 where he ties up a coil with the exact structure of the Half Hitches Noose.

[agent_smith]

Note that Graumont's 1945 image of the 'Butterfly' is showing the correct geometry.

Per Raoul Graumont: The Lineman's Knot is tied by forming a bight, then putting a half hitch around the bight from both sides with the free end of the rope with the hitches interlacing. (see page 46, Figure 134).

Link: https://archive.org/details/handbookofknots0000unse/mode/2up

I think the word 'interlacing' is intended to mean that the 'half hitches' are intertwined/linked. His tying description describes a non 'TWATE' method.

Dictionary: INTERLACE Definition & Meaning | Dictionary.com

Yes, the description could be improved - ie to more clearly state that the knot is also 'TWATE' (Tiable Without Access To either End) aka 'TIB'.

Raoul Graumont is also one of the authors of Dan's most cited and admired book '"Encyclopedia of Knots and Fancy Rope work" published 1939.

Link to 4th Ed: Encyclopedia of knots and fancy rope work : Graumont, Raoul, 1896- : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

In that book, the 'Lineman's Rider' appears at plate 48, images #345 and #346 on page 103. They describe 2 forms, a "star method" and an "end method" (which make no sense given the supplied images).

But see also Plate #237 Figure #9 on page 441 - where they refer to a 'Lineman's Bowline' (description on page 439). The photo is very poor quality - but I think its the bight with 2 half-hitches.

Below are the images from plate 48 (#345 & #346) 'Encyclopedia of Knots and Fancy Rope Work' 1939.

Note: I've tried to enhance the images - but the quality is too poor...

Its virtually impossible to determine the difference between the "star" and "end' tying methods. Could speculate that the "star" method is analogous to the 'twist' tying method?

Image below of 'Butterfly knot' is extracted from:
"Encyclopedia of Knots and Fancy Rope work" published 1939

[Dennis_Pence]

Mark, you are correct. The diagram in Graumont does give the true Butterfly Eye Knot. But the tying instructions are not very helpful.

I have a PDF of a Columbia Rope Co., Auburn, NY, USA 1925 brochure with pictures of knot boards from Troop 4, Columbus, Ohio, USA. On one of these boards, you find two Lineman’s Riders – one tied by the loop method and one tied by the end method. They are probably based upon Burger, originally 1914, reprinted version I have is 1917. I got this Columbia Rope brochure at scoutmastercg.com many years ago. The site still exists, and a Resource-Knots-page lists something “Knots1925” which is probably this brochure, but clicking on it just gives an error message now.

You might also start a list of knot publications that truly got the Butterfly wrong. I have a copy of Knots and How to Tie Them, published by the Boy Scouts of America, which lists a copyright date of 1978 (and mine is a 1983 printing). What it pictures as an “Alpine Butterfly” on page 20 is really the “Half Hitches Noose” of Wright-Magowan. Now Scouting America (new name to include girls), still publishes this pamphlet, but the newer editions have deleted this error.

Even more interesting is Practical Knots & Ropework, by Percy W. Blandford, copyrighted 1980 (and mine is a Dover reprint dated 2006). He has an eye knot labeled a Lineman’s Loop on p. 124-125 with the twist-fold method (he folds up). Unlike most others, he has the half twist insisted by M-W, but this is still our modern Butterfly. Then later (p. 233) he gives a knot he labels the “Alpine butterfly knot” and calls it "an adaption of the manharness knot”. To me it looks like all he did to his Manharness Knot was to add a half twist to the loop inside the knot. This later eye knot is clearly not what we now call a Butterfly Knot.

[Dan_Lehman]

[quote="Dennis_Pence, post:3, topic:10146"]

Unfortunately, he gets some things wrong.

Ha! This is quite the understatement. For the most part,
Hensel & Gretel don't much "get" anything, they just spew
--apparently, per the EKFRW Acknowledgements, with some
suggestions of knot forms from a few acquaintances-- stuff
of sometimes hilarious nature, and scarcely following much
of any organization, and with images to match the poor text.
(I have made the heavy slog through their book closing in
on the Appendixes --though I'm not enthusiastic to meet
up with that increase of items-per-Plate. (I've done Elementary,
Simple Knotting, Misc.Knotting; I guess I'll do the Wire rope
stuff. --not the decorative chapters.)

To that tying direction --itself (instruction) more the exception
than rule: text is usually worthless--, I should point out some
other quite hilarious cases.

.:. One really must see the fact of EKFRW --at ALL, but esp.
w/4 Editions (all the same but for growing Appendix)--
as a serious indictment on knotting. For me, yeah, it sat
mostly as ballast on the bookshelf, believe to maybe be
of some value but it was too frustrating to attend to.
Now that at long last I've seriously reviewed it
ITEM-BY-ITEM (in non-decorative chapter), I am really
ashamed at my slience, and appalled at everyonElse's
--and it shines bright light on the NYT review of it.
My goodness, it doesn't take a knots expert of even
someone w/slight familiarity with knots ...
to see the egregious lack of organization (oh, yes,
jump past 1st chapter Elementary to Simple Knotting),
the ambiguous equal-sizing of ends, the near nothingness
of so MANY of the texts. (The Mother Earth News reviewer
who called it superior to Ashley clearly read just the Wire
Rope chapter (his interest) --and H&G have a book with
that focus--, ignoring the vast chaos other pages.

)-:

[Dan_Lehman]

Dennis, while you're correct about the hard-to-date
Bushby work, my impression (I've twice sat WITH the
actual document, in the Mariners' Museum) is that
much work was done in the earlier years, when the
knotting fire burned brightly in Bushby; but as the
years ran on, and trying to do that "last 10%" towards
writing a publishable book or other account of his
explorations, there was less work done.

He I think has all chapters, through 6, at least,
with a 1902 date, but some sliding to later months,
as their beginning.

(It is a challenge of mine to find Bushby's mysterious
"source" "H." :: while he lists his Sources ["Authorities"]
in the front cover & recto page of Vol.1, and although
"H." is a quite frequent citation and seemingly early
(in form e.g. "H. 34.iii .T"),
there is no explicit such source! .
)
So, while we can't know, we can strongly surmise. (-;

--dl*
====*

[Dan_Lehman]

Given the references to lineman and the telegraph industry, I had hoped to find evidence of its use

Good try. Though you came up empty in this particular
case, yes, I think we need to press towards finding the
linemen's actual-factual use of this. (Just as it seems
to be hard to get a real actual-factual use of the supposed
"zeppelin knot" --so supposedly highly valued that there's
no record of it in official documents!)

We know of Henry Bushby's 1902 private journal where drawings were found of the 'Butterfly' (but unamed).

I'm unsure, but is it that Bushby comes to this knot
more by his own playing/exploring than by reference
to any source --oh, "Authorities" is his listing inside Vol.1.
In this case, we really should want the linemen use
and not some knot-guy's musing.

Yes, I've Gretel's Handbook. It's interesting to me
to see how similar yet-at-times-NOT-identical
the photos are --sometimes the knot's given
in much the same form but yet has discernible
differences, indicating that by golly another photo
had been made.

Ha, although H&G had mis-read Burgess's showing
the infamous unclear image of a Bwl with Tail seized.
[[Where the confusion is (Bowling <- Amy original), and
where echoed images clearly show...-- a Fig.8 with the
RELeg just tucked into the lower loop of the 8 and seized]]
Burgess writes "but surely this cannot be the true
Bwl" --nb. "canNOT"--, "which is shown ..." .
H&G name this dubious case "True Bwl". Now, maybe
there was some feedback reaching Gretel (who is said
by publishing BS to have completely revised EKFRW),
such that in 1945 he changes "True" to "False" --in just
his Handbook, but not in that completely revised 1952
4th Edition EKFRW ! (Admittedly, there'd need to be
some changes in Index and ... to accommodate it.)

Oh, Dennis has Blandford's big, Summit Point book.
HA, Percy echoes H&G's "True Bwl" nonsense, and
goes further in trying to justify this hysterical history.
(Dennis, read what Percy says about the Constrictor's
history --and we can jointly seek any actual-factual
evidence of mail-bag usage!)

--dl*
====*

[agent_smith]

Knots, Ties and Splices: authored by Joseph Tom Burgess 1884

Link to Burgess book: Knots, ties and splices; a handbook for seafarers, travellers, and all who use cordage; with historical, heraldic, and practical notes : Burgess, Joseph Tom, 1828-1886 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Page 31 (Figure 36) shows the 'weird' 'Bowline' with tail seized.

On page 99 there is an "alphabet" of knots - and some look 'TWATE' (Tiable Without Access To either End) - eg 'O' and 'M'.

But - there is no Lineman's Rider/Loop (Butterfly).

[Dennis_Pence]

Percy Blandford in Practical Knots & Ropework, 1980 has the Lineman's Loop in yet another place (although it does not appear in the index). On p. 219, Fig. 14-9 he has correct twist-fold-down tying instructions for a Lineman's Loop in C, D, E with a description on p. 220. But the tightened form (Fig. 14-9 F) is wrong.

[Dan_Lehman]

@Dennis_Pence

Unlike most others, he has the half twist insisted by M-W,

Which twist IMO is induced by torsion in the line,
maybe more than some sort of tested-best basis.
(IIRC, there might've been some test results that
ran contrary to it being better=stronger, to my
dismay, as I like it.) I.e., W&M might've been
thinking "this way goes w/lay"!?

(-;

[agent_smith]

Following on from the various points raised...

Here is a link to Percy Blandford's book "Practical Knots & Ropework" (1980):
Link: Practical KNots & Ropework : Percy W. Blandford : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

On page 219, diagram 14-9 (F) is indeed incorrect. The collars of a Butterfly knot must be on the same side (not opposite sides). He refers to this structure as a "Lineman's loop" (not a Butterfly).... but see further down where he uses the term "Alpine Butterfly".

And on page 233, Percy has further information about the "Alpine Butterfly" (as he terms it). Again, the depicted image is not a Butterfly.

I would also note that he fails to mention the 'Munter hitch' (Crossing hitch) in chapter 15 ('Climber's knots'). By 1980, the Munter hitch was well known and understood as an important tool in climbing and rescue applications.

Below is an image from page 233:

Figure 15-3 on page 233:

See also page 79 Hunters Bend (Note: Percy Blandford was obviously unaware of Phil D Smith's earlier discovery in 1953 - 'Riggers Bend').

He gets this drawing wrong too. The depicted image isn't a 'Riggers Bend' - its actually a false Zeppelin Bend.

It sounds like I'm hating on Percy (RIP)... I'm not; I'm simply pointing out errors.

[agent_smith]

I would like to make the point that I have scrutinized all of JM Drew's publications on knots - and there is no evidence of a 'Lineman's Rider/Loop' (aka Butterfly).

I have looked through multiple editions of technical rigging manuals from the telegraph/Lineman industry - and I see no evidence of a 'Lineman's Rider' (Butterfly).

The principal technical book 'THE LINEMAN'S HANDBOOK' is authored by Edwin B Kurtz who held a Ph.D and was a professor of electrical engineering.

I've looked through multiple editions and reprints of this book - and there is no Butterfly knot.

I assume that Professor Edwin B Kurtz had intimate knowledge of the technical requirements to be a 'linesman' - and had a sound working knowledge of knots used by 'linesman in the USA.

The first edition was printed in 1928, my copy is third edition published 1955.

The 5th edition Lineman's and Cableman's Handbook was published in 1978 - and there is no Butterfly knot.

Link to 1978 5th Ed: The lineman's and cableman's handbook : Kurtz, Edwin Bernard, 1894- : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

The 2002 10th edition also doesn't have the Butterfly knot.

Link to 2002 10th Ed: The lineman's and cableman's handbook : Shoemaker, Thomas M., 1921- : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

...

Hmmmmmmmmmm

[Dan_Lehman]

@agent_smith

Hmmmmmmmmmm

See if you can connect with a librarian/official
at some lineman's organization; they might do
some fruitful digging into their past.
(Unlike the Thrun's Joint/zeppelin-knot situation,
the surfacing via Burger I don't believe is some
kind of invention vs. observation; that from Wright
& Magowan openly acknowledged that what they
found --and named "Butterfly"-- might well be known
in some place.)

Good work!
(I'll double-check JMDrew for you --i.p., in just
his Chapter 12 of Griswold's Handicraft (1931?).

(-;

[agent_smith]

Thanks Dan,

I found "Handicraft" reprinted 8th Edition by Lester Griswold.

Dan has pointed out that Drew is acknowledged! Refer to page 365.

Extract:
"This chapter was prepared by Mr. J. M. Drew of the Extension Department of the University of Minnesota, a veteran Scoutmaster and Craftsman. For many years the study of knots and their uses has been his hobby and he is today the authority whose existence he questions."

The 1st edition was published 1931.

Link to 8th Ed: Handicraft: simplified procedure and projects : Lester Griswold : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

I found the 'Lineman's loop' (Butterfly) on page 398.

Extract:

Extracted image of the final geometric form (Lester Griswold) - enhanced as best as I could achieve.

I'll keep looking and report back here if i find anything further...

EDIT NOTE 1:

The 1952 9th edition of 'Handicraft (simplified procedure and projects)' has omitted knots. Instead, weaving and knitting is substituted.

Link to 1952 9th Ed: Handicraft : Lester Griswold : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

There is no Lineman's loop (Butterfly) in the 9th edition.

EDIT NOTE 2:

I found a 1931 edition of 'Handicraft (simplified procedure and projects) on ebay, and also on a 'scouts stuff 4 sale' website.
Link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/205980697437

Link: Handicraft, Simplified Procedure and Projects, by Lester Griswold, 1931 printing

Cant seem to find any free downloads of the 1931 edition.

Does anyone have a copy of the 1931 original edition? Need to know if the Butterfly knot is in this edition and if there is a reference to Drew?

[Dan_Lehman]

@agent_smith

Does anyone have a copy of the 1931 original edition? Need to know if the Butterfly knot is in this edition and if there is a reference to Drew?

Mark, I'm shaking, the knots earth quaking!
You write "8th Ed." and "no direct mention of Drew":
wrong, at the start of the knots chapter --though in
THIS edition it's at the page 365 not indicated as a "chapter"
(but the 1931 ed. does so, Ch.12 there)-- Drew is credited
with the work.
I came here my double-checking Handicraft done
as promised, but now want to triple check :: for my
report was to be "no" --not in 1931 (1st Ed.). (The
Constrictor is, put forward only as a tying NSE version
of the Strangle.)

This is getting more exciting as we go along.
(So much for the "history is 20-20" eyesight!)
So, pp. 365..419 = 55pp, which IIRC is +3 over
1931's edition. Yeah, I should do a TOContents
comparison.

BTW, I notice on p.418 the presentation of making
a tennis-court net. IMO, it looks as though Ashley
blindly copied this (imagery is much alike, I think).
And IMO it shows the tying in the bassackwards
direction --requiring tedious tucks to make that
"seizing"/"miller's-knot hitch, going left-to-right as
shown. Go opposite, and you're putting in a snuggable
HHitch and 2nd trapping the first and sending the work
along to the next knot. This is knotting seen in commercial
fishing a lot, binding netting fringes and then them to
ground/head lines. Sometimes the knots have 3-6
back'n'forth HHitches, to build strong bindings.

--dl*
====*

[agent_smith]

Thanks Dan - too many copies of various books spanning over 100 years is doing my head in!

Thanks for your important correction.

Here is the extract from Handicraft by Lester Griswold (per 8th Ed, page 365):

So finally... we have a direct link between JM Drew and the 'Lineman's Rider/Loop' (aka Butterfly).

I would like to get hold of the original 1931 edition!

Further commentary:

I have all of Drew's other publications - and there is no 'Butterfly' knot in any of these. The 'Butterfly' only shows up via Lester Griswold's Handicraft' book.

We still have AA Burger's 1914 publication (in an extension bulletin) of the 'Butterfly' - which pre-dates Drew.
And there is Wright and Magowan's publication in 1928, which also pre-dates Drew.

I have also found George Shaw's book published 1924 which has the 'Butterfly'.

The name 'Butterfly' doesn't arise until 1928 (per Wright and Magowan). Everything prior to 1928 is referring to 'Lineman's Rider/Loop'.

And as I've previously indicated, I have not seen the 'Butterfly' in any technical lineman books going back as far as 1928 (authored by Professor Edwin B Kurtz). Even the modern Lineman's Handbooks don't have the 'Butterfly'.

None of the old seaman's books have the 'Butterfly' - which suggests it was not important or crucial to them.

I'm continuing to dig around...

[Dan_Lehman]

@agent_smith

I would like to get hold of the original 1931 edition!

Let me be explicit :: I HAVE THE 1931 (1st) Edition of
Handicraft. It doesn't <<<WRONG ! have the Lineman's Loop.
Goodness, I've been missing it.
(egadz, I'm worthless)
Lineman's loop, matching images/text,
is on 1st Edition (1931) p. 235.

OK, all for quick reply now.
But to the particular query re Butterfly,
we've grounded Handicraft as having it
from get-go/start, 1931. (Nb: there's no express
"1st Edition" note, but simply the telling that upon
success of some 5 particular-crafts booklets,
this Handicraft was thus produced.

On the Constrictor history, it is interesting that
Drew presents it in Handicraft as a NSE variation
to the Strangle, 1931, yet in HIS own book of 1936
it is "gone with the wind" --to quote the late Sten
Johannson.

--dl*
====*

Interesting that Handicraft changed, gaining some
knots (I think 8th is 3-4pp bigger re Rope & Cordate
--yet to compare), then losing them entirely in 9th!

Also, consider the dates of publication ::
1st Ed. 1931
2nd _________
. . (+ 11 years over 7 editions...)
7th __________
8th 1942, 2nd printing (more!) 1944, 3rd printing (way more!!) 1945
THEN comparatively long pause --SIX YEARS--until ...
9th 1951

[Dan_Lehman]

OK, I've done a quick & dirty review of the two
editions --1931 vs. 1924(5).
In short, they're identical but for page #s
(1942 is +163 to 1931),
AND there were some slight alterations to
fit into 1942 (and perhaps some earlier edition(s))
missing "Fig." numbers --some referred to in the
1st Ed. leaving the reader puzzled as to where to
find said Fig.# !

And the treatment of Hammock Making has
some difference as to which pages have what
--the hammock image comes first in 1942/8th Ed.
but is last page of "ROPE AND CORDAGE"
(oh, and that heading is "ROPE -- CORDAGE" in 8th).

The tennis net making is new.
I want to know when this came into Handicraft,
and I'm curious as to from where they got it.
Again, IMO Ashley has copied this image --this
or a common source for him & Drew.

BUT, re imagery in Handicraft :: we see photos for
Rope And Cordage mosty, BUT ALSO some few
sharply made line drawings (pp.244(407) "Terminals"
& 245(408) "Shade Pull". And I wonder, who is it who
made these? --for Handicraft is replete with them,
not just with knots (mostly not !). Did JMDrew give
some guidance to an artist for these?

(1st try, with Duckduckgo AI got a "I can't tell from info found" answer.)