# Extra rounds for slippery ropes?

**URL:** <https://discourse.igkt.net/t/extra-rounds-for-slippery-ropes/6739>\
**Category:** Practical Knots\
**Created:** [18 April 2019 02:14 UTC](https://discourse.igkt.net/t/extra-rounds-for-slippery-ropes/6739 "2019-04-18T02:14:48Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 7\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![breadwild](https://discourse.igkt.net/user_avatar/discourse.igkt.net/breadwild/32/181_2.png) [@breadwild](https://discourse.igkt.net/u/breadwild)\
**Post date:** [18 April 2019 02:14 UTC](https://discourse.igkt.net/t/extra-rounds-for-slippery-ropes/6739/1 "2019-04-18T02:14:48Z")

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I’m working with a 1/4" nylon rope and tying a standard tautline or grip hitch, but neither is holding as securely as I’d like. I tried and extra round turn (3 instead of 2) in the loop of the tautline, for instance, and it holds better. Is that considered best practice, to break with tradition, or might I just have the wrong knot?

Thanks!

Brad

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**Author:** ![roo](https://discourse.igkt.net/user_avatar/discourse.igkt.net/roo/32/5884_2.png) [@roo](https://discourse.igkt.net/u/roo)\
**Post date:** [18 April 2019 06:10 UTC](https://discourse.igkt.net/t/extra-rounds-for-slippery-ropes/6739/2 "2019-04-18T06:10:35Z")

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> [@breadwild post:1](#):
>
> I’m working with a 1/4" nylon rope and tying a standard tautline or grip hitch, but neither is holding as securely as I’d like. I tried and extra round turn (3 instead of 2) in the loop of the tautline, for instance, and it holds better. Is that considered best practice, to break with tradition, or might I just have the wrong knot?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Brad

If you’re just trying to hold tension on a non-critical application as you tie off, extra turns may give enough friction to hold with slippery or stiff material.

If the application is more critical, and you don’t need to hold tension as you tie off, you probably want to look at a different breed of hitch, like a Gnat Hitch:

[https://notableknotindex.webs.com/gnathitch.html](https://notableknotindex.webs.com/gnathitch.html)

Loops may also be an option. Can you share your application scenario?

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**Author:** ![breadwild](https://discourse.igkt.net/user_avatar/discourse.igkt.net/breadwild/32/181_2.png) [@breadwild](https://discourse.igkt.net/u/breadwild)\
**Post date:** [18 April 2019 15:57 UTC](https://discourse.igkt.net/t/extra-rounds-for-slippery-ropes/6739/3 "2019-04-18T15:57:36Z")

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Thanks for the tips.

I have actually tried a gnat hitch in the past, but not in this case. I’ll check it out.

I really don’t have an application, I’m just learning about knot tying and slowly understanding the terminology and philosophy. I practice during my breaks from the computer (I’m a coder). A great analog diversion.

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**Author:** ![Dan\_Lehman](https://discourse.igkt.net/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Dan\_Lehman](https://discourse.igkt.net/u/Dan_Lehman)\
**Post date:** [19 April 2019 19:36 UTC](https://discourse.igkt.net/t/extra-rounds-for-slippery-ropes/6739/4 "2019-04-19T19:36:30Z")

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> [@breadwild post:1](#):
>
> I tried and extra round turn (3 instead of 2) in the loop of the tautline, for instance, and it holds better. Is that considered best practice, to break with tradition, or might I just have the wrong knot?

It’s perhaps a fallacy of inheriting practices from  
a time when materials were more similar --both  
in surface friction and strength (per-size demands  
were less).

The Blake’s hitch (aka “ProhGrip” per me) was introduced  
prior to Jason Blake’s intro by Heinz Prohaska, and for it  
he commented that for any ropes in which the hitch  
seemed not to hold well on account of stiffness,  
add an extra turn around the tucked tail;  
but if slippage seemed to come from slipperiness,  
to put extra turns in the single-strand-wrapping  
_half_. In short, he recognized that different ropes  
might have different behaviors and that the knot  
should be adjusted --as you have also realized.

Sometimes rather than adding a wrap in the hitch,  
I _guard_ the hitch with a half-hitch or full round turn  
leading to the hitch --of course, one needs space for  
this in what you’re tying to. These added turns will  
take the full force, and are in a sense _tied off_ by  
the complete hitch they guard.

There is also the consideration of the particular form  
of the wraps : i.e., it has been recommended that for  
hitching onto rope (vs. a solid/rigid object) the version  
in which the successive turn(s) is jammed between the  
SPart and initial turn will hold better, more inclined to  
put a bend in the line. YMMV. Of course, you could so  
form the “guard” structure but use the non-jammed  
full hitch behind it.

# –dl\*

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![breadwild](https://discourse.igkt.net/user_avatar/discourse.igkt.net/breadwild/32/181_2.png) [@breadwild](https://discourse.igkt.net/u/breadwild)\
**Post date:** [21 April 2019 01:37 UTC](https://discourse.igkt.net/t/extra-rounds-for-slippery-ropes/6739/5 "2019-04-21T01:37:30Z")

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> Sometimes rather than adding a wrap in the hitch, I \*guard\* the hitch with a half-hitch or full round turn leading to the hitch --of course, one needs space for this in what you're tying to. These added turns will take the full force, and are in a sense \*tied off\* by the complete hitch they guard.

Great point. See the attached image to see if I got it right (A = typical buntline, B = extra leading turn)

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**Author:** ![ParLeijonhufvud](https://discourse.igkt.net/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@ParLeijonhufvud](https://discourse.igkt.net/u/ParLeijonhufvud)\
**Post date:** [21 April 2019 07:33 UTC](https://discourse.igkt.net/t/extra-rounds-for-slippery-ropes/6739/6 "2019-04-21T07:33:09Z")

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I quite often use the tautline hitch on fairly slippery stuff – mostly modern tent guy-line stuff, i.e 1,5–2.5 mm nylon – and use a third turn as you suggest. The third turn adds sufficient friction for my needs, where two does not. For really important situations – e.g. winter tenting in the mountains, where you can have a strong wind jerking on it for hours — I rely on the plastic magic of Hillebergs adjusters: adjustment and firm locking.

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**Author:** ![breadwild](https://discourse.igkt.net/user_avatar/discourse.igkt.net/breadwild/32/181_2.png) [@breadwild](https://discourse.igkt.net/u/breadwild)\
**Post date:** [21 April 2019 13:27 UTC](https://discourse.igkt.net/t/extra-rounds-for-slippery-ropes/6739/7 "2019-04-21T13:27:44Z")

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> I quite often use the tautline hitch on fairly slippery stuff

I have found the adjustable grip hitch to hold better than the tautline and I looks a little tidier IMO.  
[https://www.animatedknots.com/adjustable-grip-hitch-knot](https://www.animatedknots.com/adjustable-grip-hitch-knot)

Brad