We are on the same page but not the same paragraph. I am working on some sketches for you. I’m just a little technologically challenged at the moment. I need to scan my drawings at work on Monday. Please be patient.
Please be patient.
Okay, that sounds great.
Before I respond in detail to Knot4u and present my sketches with respect to whether his or Lee’s TH is equivalent to ABOK #173, let me respond to his quote below.
This did not compel me at all! If a Clove Hitch is two Half Hitches, what is a Cow Hitch, one Half Hitch + WHAT? A Clove Hitch and a Cow Hitch BOTH consist of two Half Hitches. What distinguishes the two is the orientation of each Half Hitch with respect to each other and the standing part. Knot4u linked to Wikipedia’s Two Half Hitch entry. May I direct your attention to the Cow Hitch entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cow_hitch) where I quote, “The cow hitch comprises a pair of half-hitches tied in opposing directions, as compared to the clove hitch in which the half-hitches are tied in the same direction.”
Hi diff_lock,
I watched the video of Lee Bundy and the the second pulley in your video, and in my opinion they are the same: no real elbow in the result of the Lee’s structure of the pulley(IMO, or perhaps better, the opinion of my eyes!),the elbow that he seems to make, it seems to me only fictitious/temporary, perhaps the acting in this way is due to his"gestural habit" regarding the realization of the knot, but, in fact, it seems to me, as has been pointed out earlier by Keystoner (and much better than I am doing),Lee seems to realize a simple nipping turn/360 degrees circle loop,as the nipping circle of a Bowline,like your result in your video.
Bye!
>> Honestly, your making it more complicated than it is.
Yes, overthinking is a strong suit of mine.
>> I recommend you ask your questions in a new thread. Perhaps many people explaining it to you from different angles will cause you to step back and rethink.
That won’t be necessary. I’ve drawn out and rearranged my lines in every way possible. I do see your Clove Hitch. But I still see your Cow Hitch. I’ll explain in due time.
Here’s a hint: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinning_Dancer
>> No, starting a new thread is necessary. I don’t have a enough credibility for you, and you are fundamentally off the mark.
No one is compelling you to continue. I tried to agree to disagree several times.
>>There is no philosophical debate about what Two Half Hitches mean. It’s another name for Clove.
I agree.
>> Also, once again, in ABOK #173, the Clove is not just kinda sorta there if you look at it a certain way. In fact, a full complete Clove is plainly there in the standing end.
Where I try to defer the conversation to later…you like to keep it going. All righty then…
In ABOK #173, a Clove is indisputably there. In your TH, it is not. In a Clove Hitch…err…Two Half Hitches…there is one element of the line nipping the other element two times. If anything, since with your TH we’re dealing with two different elements nipping each other one time, we’re talking about a pseudo-topological-Fisherman’s Bend. Yeah, that’s what you tie in your video: A topological Fisherman’s Bend, not a topological ABOK #173.
Except the fact that this is the main cordage I use. Do I need to rename the title in the video to specify that the cord is 2.8mm single braid polyester? Done.
I’ll have to defer to the experts for the best method of a TH for that size line.
>> However, since you’re unwilling to start a new thread to discuss your theory, it’s like you don’t truly believe what you’re saying.
I don’t have a question. I don’t need to take a poll to validate my position. I know what I’m saying. I asked for time to present my “theory” but you’d rather proceed now. As you wish… (<-- You should understand The Princess Bride reference.)
>> By the way, you’re (sic) mentioning of the “pseudo topological Fisherman Bend” with respect to my Trucker Hitch makes you sound like a troll.
If you think I’m a troll, why do you keep engaging? How do you deal with a troll? Have you ever heard the expression, “Don’t feed the trolls”? If you do, they’ll just keep coming back. Wait, you keep coming back…does that mean…never mind. I’m not a troll.
Knot4u, I know you know knots way better than I. Happy? No need to be insecure and cry that you don’t have credibility with me. What, I should behold your radiance? No one can question your eminence? Yes, I said “Fisherman’s Bend.” Do you prefer “Englishman’s Knot?” This is your problem: you read very selectively (funny, I recall someone questioning another’s reading comprehension at one point in this thread); you have your own agenda and you only internalize from others what supports your agenda without trying to understand the whole argument. Forest for the trees much? I’ll give you an example from yesterday. You thought I was knocking Lee’s TH based on one statement. If you had been following all along, or tried to understand the juxtaposition of the rest of the paragraph with that statement or tried to understand the context of the response to the question and the video, I doubt you, or any other peer on the forum would have suspected any dislike on my part for the Great Lee Bundy’s TH.
Knot4u, did you overlook when I stated, “I do see your Clove Hitch”? I also understand Luca’s cool schematic. Did you read and visualize “The Spinning Dancer” Wikipedia entry. Try this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubin_vase. Knot4u, you’re better than me when it comes to knots. I’m not a troll. You should be able to understand why I suggested the Fisherman’s/Englishman’s knot.
>> You can’t rearrange a Clove that is hitched to the working end (e.g., the knot in ABOK #173) to get a Cow Hitch.
I wholeheartedly agree with you. You can with your TH though.
>> However, you can rearrange a Clove that is hitched to the working end to get a Granny Knot. Likewise, you can rearrange a Cow that is hitched to the working end to get a Square Knot.
I’m with you, bro.
Once again, you've selectively quoted me. You quote my description of your locking bight but not the nip. You HAVE to include that to understand my position.
ABOK #173 is obviously, unquestionably, undeniably, indisputably, certainly, a Clove Hitch. Your TH is not. (BTW, I am not the first poster in this thread to question your equating your TH and Lee’s to ABOK #173). To say that your TH is topologically equivalent, is subjective at best. Let me rearrange a prior quote of mine so that it may be more clear to those who chose to overlook it: In a Clove Hitch and in ABOK #173, there is one element of line nipping another element two times. With knot4u’s and Lee’s TH, there are two different elements nipping each other one time, kinda sorta like a Fisherman’s/Englishman’s Bend.
I feel your pain, knot4u. I felt it trying to convince Andy. We can keep this dance going as long as you wish.
diff_lock
Really good video, can you try my method in that small cord? My method is using ABOK 173 but I do not allow my Clove Hitch to widen like you and most others do in their tying method. I tie the Clove Hitch exactly like you would if you were tying it to a ring or rail, jammed up tight as it should be. I’d be very interested in the results of that scenario.
For the record on my method, which I’ve tested crudely in Paracord, I’ve never had it slip or fail. I can report it seems sturdier tying the Clove Hitch method than using the Cow Hitch, (I’ve tried the Cow Hitch).
Great suggestion! Diff_lock, what TMCD is describing here when he suggests ABOK #173 is two explicit nips with the standing part around the bight, just like the third TH in your video but he dresses the two nips together to form an unmistakable Clove Hitch. If that doesn’t work, try ABOK #173 + Half Hitch lock. Now that’s the video I’d like to see.
>> For the record on my method, which I’ve tested crudely in Paracord, I’ve never had it slip or fail. I can report it seems sturdier tying the Clove Hitch method than using the Cow Hitch, (I’ve tried the Cow Hitch).
When you say “Cow Hitch,” do you mean you tied both nips with the standing end around the bight to form a Cow Hitch? This is not what I’m saying Knot4u’s TH is at all.
I was not able to get the hitch very tight but at least they are close together. Results are similar to bell ringer + half hitch lock. It slips and then binds.
If that doesn't work, try ABOK #173 + Half Hitch lock. Now that's the video I'd like to see.
Read this one just after uploading the last vid. I will try this now. http://youtu.be/JfNqF_cpCak
Was thinking the same. It isn’t even easy to untie after it capsizes.
>> Simpler versions are plenty secure and don’t jam, as demonstrated in your other video, second knot.
Wait, diff_lock, I didn’t see ANY of the combinations in your videos NOT jam or completely disintegrate. Did I miss something?
>> Tying ABOK #173 plus a Half Hitch lock reminds me of an old saying, “If you don’t know how to tie good knots, just tie more knots.”
And the proof is in the pudding. Thanks for that video, diff_lock. I wish you luck and I am very curious for you to find the right combination for that size line.
And thanks for that old adage, knot4u. I will use that to discourage others from just adding more knots.
>> That looks like it collapsed into my version of ABOK #173.
That was all it took. I read this and thought, “How can that be?” I tied at true explicit two nip ABOK #173, per the figure. I took the top nip and collapsed it. It was exactly knot4u’s ABOK #172 + Half Hitch lock – Knot4u Style!
I’m still going to show you where I was coming from–from an engineering standpoint, free body diagrams and all. Can you be patient there ol’ pal?
All knots in my videos “failed”. But the knot knot4u was talking about is the bell ringer + half hitch lock. Even though it slipped and jammed knot4u is saying that there is no need to go all out and make a ABOK #173 + half hitch lock which will eventually ALSO slip and jam.
He is saying that you can get the same result (slip and jam) with both knots so why go the extra step required for an ABOK #173 + half hitch lock knot. That is how I understood knot4u’s post.
EDIT: I am also now lost. Disregard my paraphrasing of knot4u.
I use a span loop almost exclusively for my truckers hitches and versatackle systems for the sole reason that it is so easy to untie.
Definitely. That was just an idea and I’m glad you proved it wasn’t advantageous. Please keep us informed as to the best combination you find for that size line.
ETA: You’re saying you use a Span Loop. Well how about a video? 
Only if it is convenient for you…
Not sure if something like this has already been posted.
Infinite rope solution. Tested with a few cords and rope, all held. But honestly I have very limited testing abilities.
Isn’t the Bowline with a bight a infinite rope solution too? “Bowline With A Bight (ABOK #1074)”
I don’t have the book so I cannot be sure on what exactly it is.
Ok, so what is a Bowline With a Bight?