# Identification: Bowline variant

**URL:** <https://discourse.igkt.net/t/identification-bowline-variant/2963>\
**Category:** General Discussion\
**Created:** [23 February 2008 16:56 UTC](https://discourse.igkt.net/t/identification-bowline-variant/2963 "2008-02-23T16:56:37Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 7\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![lison](https://discourse.igkt.net/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/l/a3d4f5/32.png) [@lison](https://discourse.igkt.net/u/lison)\
**Post date:** [23 February 2008 16:56 UTC](https://discourse.igkt.net/t/identification-bowline-variant/2963/1 "2008-02-23T16:56:37Z")

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I’m looking for the English name of a knot on German wikipedia:  
[http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulin\_1.5](http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulin_1.5)  
It seems to be neither double bowline nor water bowline.  
But does it match those two knots?

regards

[http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/thumb/1/18/Bulin1.5a.jpg/180px-Bulin1.5a.jpg](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/thumb/1/18/Bulin1.5a.jpg/180px-Bulin1.5a.jpg)

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**Author:** ![Dan\_Lehman](https://discourse.igkt.net/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Dan\_Lehman](https://discourse.igkt.net/u/Dan_Lehman)\
**Post date:** [23 February 2008 18:57 UTC](https://discourse.igkt.net/t/identification-bowline-variant/2963/2 "2008-02-23T18:57:27Z")

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You picked an ambiguous image of the knot and left us to guess–as we’d just been  
doing with the Fig.9 loopknot–what the loading profile was (i.e., which ends go to  
form the eye, which is loaded as SPart, and which is the free end)! Your URLinked  
site provides the answer, but the initial ambiguity allows some observations.

My initial reaction was that the eye was at the top (the parallel ends), and  
so the knot was no “bowline” but a Fig.8-based knot, Ashley’s #1043 of [u][ABOK](https://discourse.igkt.net/t/9845).  
In fact, though, the eye is at the bottom, and what the Wikipedia entry about  
is the so-called “Yosemite Bowline”. (Frankly, I think that there are better  
ways to secure the Bwl.) This is clearly shown by the main image–to wit:

> **[File:Bulin1.5.jpg](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Bulin1.5.jpg)**
>
> Click on a date/time to view the file as it appeared at that time.
> You cannot overwrite this file. There are no pages that use this file.
> The following other wikis use this file:

(Why am I getting a big BLANK vs. the uploaded image??? --from ULR

> **[File:Bulin1.5.jpg](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Bulin1.5.jpg)**
>
> Click on a date/time to view the file as it appeared at that time.
> You cannot overwrite this file. There are no pages that use this file.
> The following other wikis use this file:

I’m coding [i m g] … [/ i m g] ? )

# –dl\*

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**Author:** ![turks\_head\_54](https://discourse.igkt.net/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/3ec8ea/32.png) [@turks\_head\_54](https://discourse.igkt.net/u/turks_head_54)\
**Post date:** [23 February 2008 19:15 UTC](https://discourse.igkt.net/t/identification-bowline-variant/2963/3 "2008-02-23T19:15:23Z")

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That bowline that you have tied is the Yosemite Bowline.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yosemite\_bowline](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yosemite_bowline)

turks head 54

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**Author:** ![Fairlead](https://discourse.igkt.net/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/f/c67d28/32.png) [@Fairlead](https://discourse.igkt.net/u/Fairlead)\
**Post date:** [23 February 2008 19:21 UTC](https://discourse.igkt.net/t/identification-bowline-variant/2963/4 "2008-02-23T19:21:30Z")

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Dan,  
I have always known this knot as a “Bowline” with a Yosemite tie off - which not only makes it more secure but it keeps the eye clear of any obstructions - I would like to see your better way of achieving both these critera at the same time, whilst keeping it as simple to remember.

Gordon

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**Author:** ![lison](https://discourse.igkt.net/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/l/a3d4f5/32.png) [@lison](https://discourse.igkt.net/u/lison)\
**Post date:** [23 February 2008 19:33 UTC](https://discourse.igkt.net/t/identification-bowline-variant/2963/5 "2008-02-23T19:33:37Z")

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Thanks a lot

> (Why am I getting a big BLANK vs. the uploaded image??? --from ULR http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:Bulin1.5.jpg I'm coding [i m g] ... [/ i m g] ? )

you have to copy the address [b]of the image[/b] not were it links to. (right-click [i]copy image location[/i])

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**Author:** ![Dan\_Lehman](https://discourse.igkt.net/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Dan\_Lehman](https://discourse.igkt.net/u/Dan_Lehman)\
**Post date:** [23 February 2008 23:55 UTC](https://discourse.igkt.net/t/identification-bowline-variant/2963/6 "2008-02-23T23:55:47Z")

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> [@Fairlead post:4](#):
>
> Dan,  
> I have always known this knot as a “Bowline” with a Yosemite tie off
> 
> - which not only makes it more secure but it keeps the eye clear of any obstructions -  
> I would like to see your better way of achieving both these critera at the same time, whilst keeping it as simple to remember.

Again?! 😉

With this particular Yo-Bwl, begin the extension the same, but take the end around  
BOTH legs of the eye, and tuck it out through the central loop-nip (not the collar).  
This meets your criteria, and throws a 3rd dia. of rope into the SPart’s nip, to soften  
its curvature to boot. This is similar to what Wright &Magowan presented in 1928,  
which is just slight change (as to which side end is tucked beside itself) from what  
Heinz Prohaska presented ca. 1990 as a “dbl. bight Bwl”. [And what I show as the  
“Doubly Tucked Half-hitch” would be what I’ve described above if the end dives  
down between the other two parts in the loop.]

This URLink has been here before, but here’s another shot.  
(trying [http://i3.tinypic.com/wjwh1t.jpg](http://i3.tinypic.com/wjwh1t.jpg)

[http://i3.tinypic.com/wjwh1t.jpg](http://i3.tinypic.com/wjwh1t.jpg)

One can do something similar with the Water Bwl, and if the _water_ runs like  
a Cow hitch vice a Clove hitch, the result is aptly named “Mirrored Bwl.s”  
–which is my thinking re the “Janus” moniker: it’s a Bwl both coming & going.  
😉

And it seems that although some of these structures might loosen a little  
they don’t loosen too much (or can be tied loosely w/o concern). The collar  
around the eye leg can be (should be?) drawn tighter than the lookalike  
main collar around the SPart; holding this leg in will prevent the entire body  
of the knot from loosening upon the feed of SPart in through its collar, which  
is to be expected, really (and which looseness enables the Bwl to be easily untied).

I like the way the Cowboy Bwl can be oriented, running end’s first pass after  
making the SPart collar in so that the end-eye-leg is between it & SPart in  
the central loop, making the eye-legs wrap, then tucking down between  
the two parts already within the loop.

Esp. in stiff rope (such as some esp. aged caving/SAR low-elongation kernmantle),  
the Yo-Bwl is difficult to form, as it asks for the end to make a 1-dia. turn around  
the end-eye-leg (though one can swing _wide_ and tuck out on the other side  
of the SPart, to ameliorate this); and in forming the knot (indeed, as I just did  
now, in aged BlueWater II rope), it’s not hard to pull the end wrap out of position,  
resulting in the SPart making a 1dia. turn that is more towards the eye than that  
of the end (which turn should be just within the eye)! This was a problem that  
Heinz’s Nylon Highway article pointed out; and a token/example of this  
misformed knot mistakenly appears on the Chapter 3 Knots cover page  
in [u]On Rope (1st ed.) ! --and beside it is the form of the FIg.8 loop/bend  
that Dave Merchant favors (well, the lower half is, but the upper half does  
not have the same geometry). Hmmmm.

# –dl\*

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**Author:** ![TheTreeSpyder](https://discourse.igkt.net/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/b3f665/32.png) [@TheTreeSpyder](https://discourse.igkt.net/u/TheTreeSpyder)\
**Post date:** [11 March 2008 18:56 UTC](https://discourse.igkt.net/t/identification-bowline-variant/2963/7 "2008-03-11T18:56:00Z")

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i call it a DBY or Double Bowline w/Yosemite Tie Off.

The Double Turn or Round Turn, gives it more security; but then it also raises a second tier; so takes longer to make the same bend, so therefore a softer bend; so therefore less leveraged/ maintaining more line strength. A down side is that in stiffer rope (as i’ve seen and Learned from Dano); this second tier then can give that stiffness, more leverage to possibly invert into a slip knot and capsize.

The Yosemite tie off is great for ‘cleaning’ up the eye, and then also lends more security too. But, it doesn’t change the way the Standing is bent/leveraged, so gets no increase in strength for this part of the strategy.

i favour tying this in the slipknot fashion; it is easier to thread i think. Also, this gives insight in to how it can capsize into/ revert to a slipknot.

[DBY](http://www.mytreelessons.com/images/DBY.AVI)  
[DBY Behind Back](http://www.mytreelessons.com/images/Behind%20Back%20larger.gif)

Also, you can make it in 2 parts like this, so set up, even hang the slip knot on something, even thumb; then complete in an instant.  
i first saw this method used in a guide calling it a climber’s bowline, because you could hang on with one hand to the side of a cliff; and make the slip with the ohter hand from a line lowered from 'copter or overhead ledge. then, bring the tail around and thread it through the slip knot, and pinch it back the the eye. As long as ya hold on to that pinch, you could fall or be lifted and the contraption closes and locks.