Here I’ll copy a post --moved or not, it is here (at least).
(There are no apostrophes in X’s land of keystroke kraziness!)
Did you miss the point about knot ?
If one finds a material in which the thief knot works well,
what is the point to decrying its use there --perhaps by urging
further searching …-- where is suited?
[quote="Dan_Lehman post:25, topic:4307"]It’s not so simple. Nor is friction the sole determinant of behavior
–vs. flexibility, cross-section stability, & springyness, e.g..
[/quote]
That is why I said [i]“usual”/i, [i]“non elastic”/i material.
Hmmm, now X. becomes aware of material, though he seems
to want it only with “general” characteristics, not liable to unsettle
a structured perspective!
[quote="Dan_Lehman post:25, topic:4307"]And this conjecture about the inviolability of the significance of structure
is just that, and something I think I’ve seen hints of contradiction for.
[/quote]
Well, “I” have not ! And this is exactly what I have said, again and again, repeatedly :
… so much so as to ignore that I have pointed to one
case where security was reversed. Or that it seems to have
been (security vs. shaking loose), which is enough for me to
put doubt into such a broad generalization, knowing how
diverse knottable media is.
Xarax, you have gone gung-ho here (maybe “oauauao”, whatever
that new utterance is, too) over something that is conjecture on
your part, and not wise, in light of how diverse knottable media
is. Here is a simple case that I hope sheds some light on the
variability of security:
bowlines have been --and continue to be-- used for ages
in maritime use, without further precaution, for the most part;
their users laugh at suggestions that the knot will slip;
the knots can hold through to rupture, in testing;
but rockclimbers know to beware the bowline, because of
some well-publicized cases where it has slipped in the
sense of coming loose.
Now, I submit that if one put a shake test on a bowline
tied in some flexible, 12-strand HMPE (non-coated [and by this
I mean “not coated with urethane or other like treatment”,
and NOT “unsheathed” --but, yes, it IS unsheathed/pure]),
the knot will do better than one tied in springy slick PP, or
smooth-slick-&-firmish kernmantle;
BUT, put to the test machine (same knots exactly!),
the not-shaken-loose(now) latter knots (knots as knotted
material) will hold to break,
whereas that in HMPE will slip out, spill.
Yes, this is different than your Knot-A & Knot-B scenario;
but it shows the vagaries of knot behavior, and in has specific
aptness to the OP who wants security, entirely.
Please don’t read me as dismissing structure as important.
But we might come to --with improved, intelligent testing
and demonstration thereof of knot behavior across materials–
see some structures as preferable where materials are very
flexible, say, and other structures good in different cases
(and be less likely to try to find some universally best
structure).