# Knot Bio: Zeppelin bend

**URL:** <https://discourse.igkt.net/t/knot-bio-zeppelin-bend/6347>\
**Category:** Knotting Concepts & Explorations\
**Created:** [28 October 2017 04:35 UTC](https://discourse.igkt.net/t/knot-bio-zeppelin-bend/6347 "2017-10-28T04:35:27Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 1\
**Showing post:** 59

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**Author:** ![Dan\_Lehman](https://discourse.igkt.net/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Dan\_Lehman](https://discourse.igkt.net/u/Dan_Lehman)\
**Post date:** [10 November 2017 01:31 UTC](https://discourse.igkt.net/t/knot-bio-zeppelin-bend/6347/59 "2017-11-10T01:31:13Z")

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> [@agent\_smith post:58](#):
>
> New version uploaded…  
> VER 0.9a (09 NOV 2017).

Comments.

1. Saying that nearly all known knots have an Ashley #  
is saying implicitly that neither I nor Xarax nor … know  
knots :: IMO, I’ve sketched perhaps 2000 “new” knots  
by now (and most weren’t in [u][ABoK](https://discourse.igkt.net/t/9845) but some were,  
I later realized --quite the Sherlock I was!).  
There are many known knots not there --as you should  
know, most “friction/climbing/ascending hitches” are NOT  
there, nor medical, nor fishing knots.

2. Asserting that the sometimes jamming of SmitHunter’s bend  
is “likely a result of the inter-woven overhand knots”  
misses the point that Ashley’s " " " -based #1408,  
#1452, #1425a-with-“twisted”-tails, & #1425 do not  
have this characteristic. (You’re inflating your zep.knot  
article with hot air!)  
But I can see merit in your note, in that in #1425a’s case,  
the SParts _lean_ towards each other and give the collar  
a single-dia to wrap tightly around,  
whereas the z. and other knots have ways to resist  
this (Z. turns are trying to pull apart; so, too, #1425,  
where tail wraps resist the opening; #1408 is most  
z.-like in geometry here).

3. Asher’s Eastern Z. w/crossed tails might not benefit  
the parent knot, but such crossing does wonders for the  
false zep., if tails are hauled tight (as though to set  
it for an offset knot!).  
And such crossing improves #1425a (#1425b, call it).

4. “Most bends can be converted into their corresponding  
eye knot(s)” both tickles a noun-# issue (avoid by writing  
“A bend has a … knot” or some such),  
and presumes one version of “corresponding”.  
I believe that this forum carries some of my images  
of a quartet of corresponding, z.-like eye knots.  
(Consider that presumed to correspond from eye  
to end-2-end re the lineman’s loop / butterfly :  
THAT is a different relation (eye is chopped)!

=\> “An eye knot can be formed by …” and one can  
give both the presumed but also an arguably more  
direct correspondence, wherein one begins with the  
end-2-end knot, _twins_ one side’s part, and then  
fuses one tail end to the opposite side’s tail.  
(With the zep. one thus has 100% load of  
SPart around X’s “axis” opposed by 100% from  
eye legs, but in the more voluminous form of  
twin strands (2x50%) and that volume-wise  
imbalance. We’ve fiddled versions to get the  
SPart in between … , with some success.  
(( to tie the first-sort :: at point of making  
final, tail-tuck of SPart’s overhand (for eye knot),  
TUCK IN A BIGHT and continue to tie the  
opposite overhand backwards with this bight,  
which of course emerges in the end-2-end’s  
usual SPart place with instead a bight-eye. ))

(((Suffice it to say that this method does NOT  
like the grapevine bend !! --but came  
to me upon seeing a blood knot presented  
for joining a “leader” to a bight’s legs --works  
fine, for that knot.)))

3b) “The idea of converting end-2-end … into eye knot  
… by Harry Asher” !! Holy Hot Air Headaches, Bat Man!  
This is as silly as Asher’s Law of Hitch Bight … whatever ::  
it celebrates the obvious. (Looks like someone wanted  
a bigger footnote count. ;D )

1. “tails … crushed together … limit slippage” :: One might  
note that there is much LESS such crushing-together going  
on in the z. than in the aforementioned other knots!  
(And that these things don’t hold in HMPE, egadz!)

> [] page 15: new image and content added (200kg loading with content describing effect of load)

It occurs to me that you might benefit from showing like loading in some different rope/material. The knot's been cited as jamming and I'd guess that might come with firmer line in some cases, with SPart's turn not compressing so much?! Do you have any "static" kernmantle?

Re slack-security, you might have trouble convincing  
folks that such a loosely open knot can be trusted to  
get no looser --esp. with the grapevine de rigeur  
for such tasks. You can play around with shake testing  
#1408 & the z. to get some idea of how the latter might  
be doing better --is it how there’s (in more flexible rope)  
a nearly right-angle bend for the center tuck,  
and this doesn’t enable easy _flowing_ out?  
–or that tails want to --from this angled bend–  
spring into each other, which arrests them?  
(Well, hmmm, ditto for SPart’s somewhat sharp  
U-turn, as contrasted with the roundness of a  
bowline’s turNip. !?)

# –dl\*

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