The mountaineering text Freedom of the Hills has a brief “greatest hits” section on knots. It presents three loops that can be tied in a bight: the overhand loop, the figure eight on a bight, and the butterfly. I’m left feeling unclear on why one would use the butterfly. They say, “The useful characteristic of the butterfly knot … is that it can sustain a pull on either end of the rope or the loop and not come undone.” Wouldn’t this also be true for the figure eight on a bight? After all, we use a rewoven figure 8 (which is the same knot) to tie in to a climbing harness, and we don’t worry much about that coming undone, regardless of how we pull on it. Since every climber learns the figure 8 for tying in to a harness, it’s unclear to me why one would also learn the butterfly.
The Fig 8 on a bight is a directional knot, meaning it only takes a pull in the direction the loop’s facing. If you try to pull the Fig 8 in the opposite direction that it’s facing, it can distort and probably become unstable. The Alpine Butterfly on the bight can take a pull from either direction and behave solidly, meaning it won’t distort or collapse. It gets high marks for this feature, I’m not sure how many other knots can make this claim.
TMCD, you’re off course : what you say is appropriate to what’s called
variously the “directional fig.8” or “inline fig.8”, not the fig.8 proper.
-
Which version [u]FoH ? (Current is an anniversary edition,
I think --7th or 8th? The 5th ('92) doesn’t have “butterfly”.) -
“Fig.8 on a bight” is a sort of confusing moniker : the result
is the same as “… re-threaded/-woven”, only the tying method
differs. (It would be a good empirical-research project to see
if in fact the result differed, in practice, and whether any of
the tyers had a clue about that fact!) -
Both of these knot names denote more variation in physical
entities than people commonly are aware of : I’ve remarked about
the variations of the fig.8 structure in another thread --suffice
it to say that a fundamental question of which of the parallel
strands is to be loaded is typically left unaddressed (and even
where it is graphically perspicuous, one can wonder whether
that geometry is really meant to be recommended over others,
and why!)-- ; the butterfly is at its base an asymmetric knot,
beyond which are variations of dressing --so it could matter from
which end it is loaded qua eyeknot (but nobody ever remarks this
distinction). -
You ask about the fig.8 but not also of the overhand
–just a “e.g.” or did you not see your question equally valid
for the latter? In practice --i.e., of all knot tying, not only that
of kernmantle-rope users–, I’ll bet that the overhand eyeknot
is the most often found mid-line eyeknot, as its well known. -
It’s quite a surprise to read in the [u]CMC Rope Rescue Manual (3rd ed.)
test results for 12.7mm low-elongation nylon kernmantle rope that
show the butterfly (orig. “lineman’s loop”) and fig.8 eyeknots
to have similar strengths when loaded end-2-end (eye unloaded) !!
–i.e., in the loading expected for the former to excel and the latter
to often fail by flyping!? Frankly, it’s enough of a surprise that I
remain skeptical of the fig.8’s behavior here --and there are test
results showing such an “offset” end-2-end joint (essentially what
the eyeknot is rendered as, here) capsizing/flyping repeatedly. -
The butterfly has variations in which the draw of the two
ends is the same (i.e., both clockwise, e.g.) and one half forms
a fig.8 not overhand , and another like knot that is a form
of Ashley’s #1408, with twin eyes (2 to be loaded qua 1).
–dl*
Why the butterfly?
Apart from all the good reasons you’ll read from others, I am compelled to “pimp” the “thumb hook” method of tying a butterfly, which is not the same as the “hybrid method” (by the same author I believe). You can use your palm as shown, or just two fingers, or one—either way, in a matter of moments you’ll be tying butterflies on automatic pilot, while watching a movie for instance.
For me this was revolutionary. I recently stumbled upon this method on that YouTube channel (I think it belongs to Alpineer), and also mentioned it at the very bottom of an old post, but I believe it deserves all the publicity it can get. I tie butterflies all the time, and in that respect this method is “life-changing”.
The two standard methods seem much simpler to me.
The two standard methods seem much simpler to me.
I too had been using these standard methods.
http://www.asiteaboutnothing.net/cr_most-useful-knots.html#alpine-butterfly
But, as someone who ties butterflies all the time, I can tell you that I am a convert. You have to try it for a few minutes and give it a chance. It takes a few minutes until your fingers find the “natural dance” where it just flows. The “dropping on the thumb” and picking the loop at the back are part of one motion. If you keep the hand parallel to the plane of the wall on the video, then if you pull the loop into that same plane (not at an angle), the structure falls into place naturally.
For me there is no going back.
The method…
- is far faster
- gives you better control over the length of the loop
I’ve never liked the second “standard” method you present. It seemed needlessly busy.
I will grant that the thumb hook method is an improvement over the hazardous “hybrid method”, but the part of rope draping over the thumb doesn’t fall into place very easily for the final move. If it falls in the wrong position (too far right), you get something that resembles an Artillery Loop.
The overall complexity of what to grab and where to put it just seems harder to remember long-term.
Also, I’ve never had any problem with controlling loop length with the two standard methods. It’s just a matter of leaving the structure open at the right time as you pull material.
P.S. The “right time” for the coil method is at the initial pull to the right. The right time for the twist-fold method is represented by the down-pointing gray arrows in the second step.
I agree with Andy and roo that the hybrid method is the champion. All other methods are competing for second place.
I kinda said the opposite. I’ll let Andy speak for himself.
I kinda said the opposite. I'll let Andy speak for himself.
I also said something different. The method I was promoting is not the hybrid (though I do like it), but the “thumb-hook”, which is related but in my opinion superior.
While we’re there, I’ll also link to Alpineer’s twisty way of tying the bend.
I mainly use the Butterfly as a bend. The Hybrid Method is easily adaptable to a bend. The Thumb-Hook method caused me to have a minor brain aneurism. Thus, the Hybrid Method remains the champion.
Thus, the Hybrid Method remains the champion.
The champion 4U, Knot4U! 
Speaking of which, I often notice the “winners and losers” for the truckie’s sheave loop in your signature, and I’ve been meaning to ask you something. I don’t know the names of all the loops in your winner and loser lists. What do you call my “double twist secured by a half hitch” (and therefore where does it fit in your ranking)? As you’ve pointed out before, the “double twist secured by a half hitch” is the method shown on this video. Is that some kind of “sheepshank version”?
WINNERS!Span Loop (ABOK #1049) Bell Ringer + Half Hitch Lock (ABOK #173) Bowline With A Bight (ABOK #1074) Butterfly (ABOK #1053) if dressed right Double/Triple Butterfly Scrap rope as sheave http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3878.0 Real sheave on a loop Steel ring on a loop Steel thimble on a loopLosers
Bell Ringer (ABOK #172) Bowline (ABOK#1010) Bowline on the Bight (ABOK #1080) Figure 8 Loop (ABOK#1047) Directional Figure 8 (ABOK#1058) All slip loops, including... Slipped Overhand Slipped Figure 8 Slipped Figure 9 Slipped Figure 10 Slipped Multi-Twist Etc.</blockquote>
I've never liked the second "standard" method you present.
Agreed, Roo, in that “family of methods”, your “first standard method” might be simpler than my “second standard method”. I wasn’t aware of that method—whenever I’d looked at your diagram, I’d “seen” the method I knew, without noticing the difference. I notice that the method you show also works for the double and triple butterfly loops. Glad to learn about it, always nice to learn something about an old friend. (Unless you learn that he’s been stealing your beer and fathering your children, I guess.)
Yet another mini-variant on tying the butterfly:
I dislike all the hand-wrap methods, and wanted something that had the same feel for the loop as the bend.
For a loop, I start by draping the rope of my wrist, then make the first twist and hang it over my thumb. Then make the second twist, and pinch that between thumb and and index or middle finger.
On the way to this point, either or both strands of the rope can optionally be trapped (between index and middle fingers on one side, and under little finger on the other).
I like this because it’s also easy to tie the bends this way (trap one or both strands early for control), and it’s very easy to adjust (any of the four strands) and set the knot (getting the way I like it used to take longer than tying it 
Is anyone else doing this? Or can everyone else control the form of the knot and length of the loop / bend with the standard methods?
Without some images, no one is going to have any idea what you’re doing.
… but I can understand it perfectly …
Pix are a small challenge because I just got my first digital camera, but I’ll try to figure it out my new camera and take a picture or two
In the meantime some context (that should have been in my first post): it’s a variant on the second way of tying a butterfly shown on your site:
http://notableknotindex.webs.com/butterflyloop.html
… the one with the “2x” picture showing the two twists.
To get back to the initial question of why Freedom of the Hills, or other mountaineering/climbing texts, recommend the butterfly, I would like to point out the classic example of tying out a damaged piece of rope. The damaged part of the rope is tied so it is in the loop, so all tension is relieved from the damaged part, allowing you to safely climb or rappel on, albeit on a slightly shorter and knotted rope.
Why the butterfly instead of the figure 8? The figure 8 could capsize (rolling over, shortening the loop to the point where the damaged part is again loaded) or jam, both problems that the butterfly is not prone to. A firmly jammed knot in the middle of your rope can become a real liability. The butterfly is a great tool to have in your knot tool box. It works well as a bend and works as a hitch/loop tied around something (though it requires an initial overhand bend in the standing part). The butterfly also takes less line to tie than the figure 8, not so important in a climbing rope but it can matter.
So if the butterfly is so great, why isn’t it recommended to and learned by all climbers? Like you said, the figure 8 works, and for many climbers, the figure 8 makes up most, if not all, of the knots they use while climbing. Regardless of your opinion on this approach (and if you are on this forum, I can make an educated guess), for many experienced climbers, the figure 8 is their go to knot, and they have come down from the mountain safe every time.
There is another reason it is not universally recommended though: while the butterfly has a unique look, it is very difficult to tell apart the “false” butterfly (names vary, some call it the half hitch noose, caver’s butterfly, fisherman’s loop, or just the butterfly, while referring to the “true” butterfly as the alpine butterfly) which performs a little differently. One reason for the widespread popularity of the figure 8 is that it can easily be checked. The butterfly, in this sense, cannot be quickly checked, because it takes some serious looking and usually even some redressing to be sure it isn’t the “false” butterfly. And if you get creative with methods for tying the butterfly, as has been discussed above, I have found the “false” version start to occur unexpectedly. I own a boy scout knot book which actually instructs the reader to tie the false version and have posted the instructions from that book, IT IS NOT THE ALPINE BUTTERFLY, IT IS THE FALSE BUTTERFLY! So beware, and compare them for yourself
With all that in mind, I think the butterfly is a wonderful knot and use it often. Some have even called it the Queen of Knots.