A Very Practical Knot Challenge

There have been threads discussing ‘best’ or ‘favourite’ knots. The lists were typically varied and somewhat long. So here is a challenge: name only 1 (and 2 and 3) knot(s) that are worth knowing - single knots, no variations (as in e.g. ‘bowlines, in general’ or both: slipped and unslipped versions as a single knot), no obvious composites (as in e.g. Truckers’ Hitch). Complexity/ease of learning or tying/inspectability are not of concern if you only know one knot (or two or three).

For knowing only one knot, I would pick Scott’s Simple Lock Bowline (a.k.a. Woven Bowline).

Decent fixed loop; double safety if you can remember only half of the knot (e.g. when times are stressful); can replace many object hitches and some nooses/binding hitches (may not be exactly like Timber/Killick but useful enough for dragging a bunch of Christmas trees behind a truck); interconnected loops form an OK bend (that’s not a variation - just tying the same knot twice on two different rope ends); seems to reasonably hold on a variety of rope sizes and materials, including somewhat slippery and/or stiff ones and bungee cords; doesn’t shake loose that easily when slack and mostly easy to untie after relatively heavy loading; can be tied one-handed, with the other hand holding the standing part; can even make the Poldo Tackle with two of these…

Also, although this may be controversial given the contest rules, it can replace at least one use of a midline-loop, such as the Butterfly, by using ‘the same’ knot to attach a second rope in the middle of another one - thinking of the construct as a loop, the second rope masquerading for its working end.

Zeppelin Loop would serve almost just as well, but it requires pre-overhand (I think this is called non-TIB?).

For the set of two or three knots, I think I need a bit more thinking as some choices may work well in combination.

For the set of three knots, in addition to the Woven Bowline for all its versatility described above, I would add Butterfly midline loop and Backhand hitch (Munter wrap and two half hitches, as it reduces the tension on the final half hitches roughly as well as two round turns - https://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=7281.0).

This combination will allow for attaching rope under tension to an object - possibly one-handed, for some binding ability, and for constructs such as the Trucker ‘hitch’.

I still don’t know what the most useful set of two knots could be.

For the set of two knots I would propose Gnat hitch and Zeppelin bend. You’re losing a fixed loop, but the Gnat can be used in many places when a fixed loop is normally used and adds noosing and binding ability.

p.s. While pretty ugly-looking, it is possible to tie two Gnat hitches to form a bend between two ropes (in a fashion of double Fishermen/Grapevine bend or even hitch-to-hitch). I’m not sure how good such a bend would be, but if any good it would replace the functionality of the Zeppelin bend, so maybe the Zeppelin bend could be replaced by some other knot that would add more genuine functionality to the mixture.

Just to explain the quest - I kind of see it as similar to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_if8-CkTZE

My personal 3 most used, practical, pretty much handle most situational needs are: S- Locked bowline, overhand bend and constrictor knots.

Overhand bend? I have been taught that the overhand bend is weak, but as always would love to be corrected. I know it is used in some climbing situations, but there the ability to pass over edges or through carabiners is a special consideration

Oh yes, the Overhand bend. I use it climbing (not very often and not everything is climbing related), but mostly during work and home. Lets face it, I’m not going to tie another more complicated bend to join say Mason’s cord or thread.
All knots weaken the material, so I just choose what I deem most appropriate regarding material, knots and situation.

That does make sense. My knotting tends to be in the context of either (1) boats, (2) bushcraft/primitive technology or (3) decorative/fancy. And e.g. willow bark cordage is far more sensitive to bending than most fibers we use today. Of course, like most of us I actually only use a relatively few knots the most (I bet that if I did the statistics it would follow the typical pareto chart curve). My most used ones probably is

  1. zeppeliner bend
  2. bowline?
    3 tautline hitch (a lot of tarps are set up)

It really depends on context, if I’m out in the woods then the siberian hitch gets used more often, but less so on a boat, And the “doubled doubled slipped sheet bend” (i.e. doubled shoe lace knot, https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/surgeonknot.htm [1]) is tied at least two times a day, almost every day:-)

[1] Hmm, I think the illustrations there is off, at least with how I’m doing it: in the final step I “double” both the loop and the nearby tail, which matches the final illustration

Any notable entries for a single knot or a set of two? :slight_smile:

I can’t get it to a single knot.

I keep trying to cheat by thinking of things like the marlinspike which can become several different knots with a few quick tweaks but that is not in the spirit of your challenge.

Like those that have posted above, the knots I use change with where I am or what I am doing. Camping, gardening, decorative knotting…

Around home I could probably get away with a couple, maybe the bowline and the farrimond hitch.

But there is no way I could get to one!

I suppose I could semi-cheat and say zeppeliner bend/loop then. Use as a bend it is among the best, and makes a quite secure loop knot as well.
I once talked to a man who has spent a lot of time in the wild places around the world, and he told me that when he was visiting a far north group (can’t recall if it was Siberia or northern Canada), and was shown what was (according to the locals) the most useful knot: a taut-line hitch.

But I personally believe that there is a number somewhere between 5 and 20 that is the optimal minimum number of knots for general purposes. Below that and you have to play games to make it do the job, and above that you are either getting into details as to which knot is optimal in a very specific situation, personal preference or esthetics. Agreeing – ha! – on such a short-list would be a useful exercise, in my opinion.

So these are the combinations proposed so far:

Single knot category:

  • Woven Bowline (Scott’s Locked Bowline)
  • Tautline Hitch

Two knots category:

  • Gnat Hitch + Zeppelin Bend
  • Bowline + Farrimond Hitch
  • Zeppelin Bend + Zeppelin Loop

Three knots category:

  • Zeppelin Bend + Bowline + Tautline Hitch
  • Woven Bowline (Scott’s Locked Bowline) + Overhand Bend + Constrictor Knot
  • Woven Bowline (Scott’s Locked Bowline) + Butterfly Loop + Backhand Hitch

With the number of knots worth knowing so severely limited, there is unlikely an ideal set and all of them have some virtue. I wonder which of the sets would survive the greatest number of practical scenarios thrown at the user?

p.s. on personal note, Scott’s selection of 3 knots, which seemed eccentric at first, may be actually quite useful…

Yes, with a slight drift in the challenge’s “spirit”,
one could simply say “overhand knot” and be done
with it. Meaning that the OH can be used to make
the Fish.knot, Offset OH ends joint, ring bend, OH eye knot,
simple half-hitch, and so on.

These proposed sets of knots read way too much
like “I bet I know some knots YOU don’t know!”
and not at all like “here’s a sampling of real knotting
done by various task doers”. :wink:

–dl*

Yes, with a slight drift in the challenge's "spirit", one could simply say "overhand knot" and be done with it.

Not slight. Actual constructs that you actually use to perform different tasks, but drastically limit the number of them.

NASA just had a special announcement: the Earth will be struck by a meteorite at midnight. Among other consequences, the collision will obliterate all knotting knowledge, books and all, undo all the knots in existance, and inflict all experts and laymen with total knot-amnesia. But there is hope…

Dan the Grand Knotting Wizard was given a small stone tablet and is going to etch a diagram or two on it to pass on his knowledge to future generations. How much he wished the stone was bigger…

His first idea is clever: an overhand knot from which knotting craft will be reborn and re-evolve over time, all nicely pedigreed. He quickly realizes that this won’t do - a more practical solution is needed by midnight - there is no time for evolutions. He suddenly has an epiphany! Moments later he’s done, satisfied with his new diagram set in stone, ready to use. The calamity has been averted, sanity restored - at least for now…

I just wanted to add a possible entry by Dave Root (if I may) for the set of two knots from this thread:

  • Alpine Butterfly (for any fixed eye loop, and a bend - but this is a bit of cheating to lump the two uses…)
  • Tautline Hitch (for what it is as well as an actual object hitch when snugged and a mildly-binding one unless one reverses the sides of the round turn and the half-hitch(es) to make it more binding as in [1230], but that would be another cheat…)

Sorry for late reply. Anyway, I like challenges like this. They make you think. In old threads there has been quizzes of what 3, 4, 5, 10 , 12 etc knots would be best to know, easiest for a knotting beginner to learn, most useful in general, most useful in certain situations (whaling doesn’t come to mind, for some reason), but now you ask about what single knot to know. Ok, I just pretend it is about knowing just one single knot, and what that would be.

I started by trying to figure out any kind of scenario where one could know just one single knot, and I came to the conclusion that it could only be a science fiction scenario. So I wrote a little SF story to help make the challenge of picking ONE single knot more plausible. Here it is with my apologies for bad writing, language or sense of humour.

One day, long ago, when I was taking Fifi, our family giraffe, out for a walk, Fifi started to act nervous about something, so I followed her gaze and quickly found out that she had been frightened by a UFO in the shape of an alien spaceship. While I was calming her down the flying saucer landed in a clearing ahead, and without any delay one of its crew approached. “Twine?” he said. I recognized my nom de plume from the online forum of the International Guild of Knot Tiers (IGKT for short), and said the first thing that came to mind: “This is about knots, isn’t it?”

“O, Twine” the robotic visitor from another planet said, “My planet, the planet of robotic aliens, has suffered a disaster, and you are the only one who can help us!”

“I’ll see what I can do” I said, “but are you sure I’m the right person to ask? I don’t know much about anything besides knots.”

“That’s exactly why we sought you out. Our mental scanners found you to be the most knowledgeable knot tier in the world, at least among those who didn’t wear tin foil hats at the time of the scanning. Such hats block our mind rays.”

That made me wonder, since I never thought that such hats were all that common among IGKT forum posters, but you live and learn, as I tell myself every time I make a mistake.

“My people, the robotic aliens from the planet of robotic aliens, are robotic, as you may have figured out already”, the shiny chrome giant said apologetically.

“Yes?” was my reply.

“Well, we robo-aliens all work together guided by a supercomputer in the sky, and now its database has sprung a leak in the department of knots and knotting, so now we don’t even know a half hitch from a quarter hitch. Will you save our planet by letting us absorb all your knowledge of knotting, hitching, bending, netmaking and so on?”

“If it doesn’t take too long or is otherwise inconvenient”, I answered.

“It may be a bit inconvenient, perhaps,” the metal monster admitted, “because the knowledge we need to absorb from your mind will be eradicated from your brain due to the special emergency process we will have to use in this planet-threatening emergency. We were unable to untie the box that contains the manual for doing it non-destructively, as it was sealed by some kind of knot mechanism, and we, like I said, have lost all knowledge pertaining to knots”.

“I see”, I said, “but it would be too terrible for me if I didn’t have the knowledge of tying and untying as much as a single knot. Maybe you should ask someone else.”

“THERE IS NO TIME!” cried the metallic alien. “YOU ARE KILLING AN ENTIRE PLANET WITH YOUR EGOISM!”

I tried to explain to the mechanical miracle of technology that to each and every human his own pleasure and convenience is far more valuable than any number of planets, his own included, but he argued against that with such emphasis that poor Fifi (the giraffe I introduced at the beginning of the story to indicate its fictitious nature) dropped dead on the spot and I myself almost lost my temper. In short, the robot threatened to kill me there and then, but to soften my plight (in its own opinion, anyway) it said that I could choose to withhold ONE (1) knot from the memory extraction ray.

First I thought I should retain knowledge of the figure of nine knot, since that was what I was studying most intensely at the time. It is very useful both as a stopper knot (easy to open as soon as tension stops) a knot for tying mountaineers ropes together (probably even more secure than the EDK) and as the smallest possible version of a timber hitch. So it could be used as a stopper, a bend and a hitch, and it could be used instead of the figure 8 when forming a fixed eye on the end of a rope. I was fairly certain it would make for a good midline loop too, thus working as a replacement for the alpine butterfly loop.

However, I decided in favour of the slipped surgeons knot. It has only one advantage over the figure 9, but that was crucial to me. Without it (or some inferior version) I wouldn’t be able to tie my shoes. People would say: There goes Twine, once an excellent tier of knots, but now he can’t even tie his shoelaces together.

And there you have it. Forced to choose a single knot, it would have to be something to tie my shoelaces. I can’t figure out how to do that using the figure of nine knot. I’d be grateful for any ideas of how to achieve the tying of shoes using only figure 9 knots.

not doing much to dispel any impressions people might have that knotters are nutters, are we, Twine? :blush:

constrictor, backhand half hitch, chinese crown loop,
at the moment.

limited by my limited repertoire,
so that makes things easy

if one cord type, i like paracord,
or, polyester cord cover

a month ago i would’ve said ‘bowline’ or ‘constrictor loop’ instead of chinese crown loop, but it has taken my fancy recently and something nice to look at if in such a scenario,
as long as it didn’t need to be tied in a hurry.

if half hitch isn’t a knot, and can be thrown in for free,
that’ll be exponential advantage … i think!