A few years ago I discovered a new and a more practical way to tie the Alpine Butterfly Loop Knot.
The original worded description of the tying process has been edited to hopefully allow for easier understanding:
Right-handers version,
Wrap the line around your left hand in the clockwise direction until the Working Part passes over the Standing Part two times, forming a Loop on the hand with an “X” shaped crossing underneath. 2) Position the Working Hand between the crossed legs of the “X”. 3) Take the Loop and pull it down under the “X” Crossing Part to the other side of the crossed legs. Step #3 lets you easily adjust the size of what will become the “Eye” of the knot. 4) Pass the end of the Loop through the central opening above the “X” crossing to complete the tying process. 5) Dress and set the knot.
I call this way of tying the Alpine Butterfly Knot the “Hybrid” Method, with reference to each of the key component forms used in the traditional ABK tying methods, i.e. the Loop and the “X” shaped crossing.
The Hybrid Method offers features of particular value to mountaineers:
ergonomic efficiency (each step in the tying process flows easily and smoothly into the next)
easy eyeloop sizing
speed of tying (less than 5 sec.)
the knot can be tied with gloves or mitts on
the knot can be tied in the dark with ease and confidence
easy to dress the knot and give a neat appearance
easy to learn and remember
The Hybrid Method also makes it easy to tie the Double Loop and Triple Loop versions of the Alpine Butterfly Knot.
You are so right that words alone are a poor medium for figuring out how to tie knots. I hope soon to post a link with photos or video that will make it easier to learn this method.
In the meantime:
The more well known methods of tying the Alpine Butterfly involve either wrapping a rope or cord around your hand to form two Loops, or twisting a Bight to form two “X” shaped Crossing Parts. In the case of the “Hybrid Method” you wrap the line around your hand to make one Loop AND one “X” shaped Crossing. Now you have a Roundturn on your hand with an “X” Crossing underneath. Note that the Loop and the “X” Crossing must be of the same handedness. From between the two crossed lines under the Crossing Part is where you reach up and grab the loop of the Roundturn. Pull the Loop down to form a Bight and take it through the hanging lines. Then feed the Bight through the hole bounded by the top of the Roundturn and the crossed lines. Tighten the knot and you have now formed the Alpine Butterfly Loop Knot.
Once you get it, it’s like riding a bicycle. You’ll never forget how to do it.
Hope this helps Derek. Good luck and please let me know how you make out. I would greatly appreciate any comments you may have.
I think I was able to make it work, but I don’t know if it was the way you intended. I’m not sure it was easier or more memorable than either of the two methods of tying shown here:
I looked for how bringing the first line forwards (in the two loops method) made the crossing you spoke of, then I rotated this around my hand to see how it worked on the heel of my palm.
At first I found it a little clumsy, I preferred the ability (in the two loops method) to hook the loop through with my thumb, but then as I tried pulling out a larger loop, I moved into handing the loop into my hand instead of just hooking it with my thumb, then suddenly the whole method flows like a dream, especially the ability to pull out to any size loop you want which is no where as easy or tidy with the two loop method.
I’m hooked, and will happily teach this method in future, now we need a video of how to do it. Any takers?
Thank you alpineer for bringing it to us. It reminds me that it is just as important (if not more so) to have as good a library of methods as we would build of knots.
On second thought, maybe I don’t have it. Let’s be careful here, everyone. I keep getting a false look-alike version of a Butterfly Loop or Lineman’s loop that is discussed in this thread (half-hitch loop):
There are two possible ways of crossing, or twisting, the the two lines hanging from your non-working (drone) hand. When you cross them the wrong way you get the false look-alike version. Fortunately, the correct way just feels right once you have tried both ways. In fact, I suggest that one should try both ways to experience the difference between the two ways.
Glad you GOT IT and thank you for comments. They are appreciated.
I have uploaded a sequential photo set on Flickr. My username in the “People” search field is ursusgummis. The set is entitled “A Better Way To Tie The Alpine Butterfly”.
Thank you for the images. That clarifies things. I’m sure you find the method easy for you, otherwise you wouldn’t do it. However, if I were to study the method of tying for some time, I still think that I’d be likely to forget it even after a week.
Thanks for your input Roo.
Just for fun, imagine if you were on a glacier at night in a blinding snow storm with a pair of boxing gloves on your hands and desperately needed to tie into the middle of your rope with an alpine butterfly ;D. It can actually be done using the “Flying Method”.
Damn memory failure Roo, I think there is a medical term for it - but I just can’t remember it right now, but give me a while, it might come to me.
Alpineer - you are clever spotting this method of tying, but "standing on a glacier, in a blizzard, in the dark, wearing boxing gloves, and you need to tie into your rope !!! Clever, but utterly mad.
In part to change the line-up of too-long-stable threads (as we wait in great eagerness
for more from Agent_Smith, Down Under !!), and as I’ve not responded to this thread,
let me say BRAVO! This indeed seems a good easy significant step to making the
tying of this knot simple(r). (Although, to some extent, the torque of what some
have called the “twirly flop” method leads to an orientation of the eye legs that
might have benefit.) It is easy also to size the eye in this method on the initial
wrap. --very clean, simple, which counts much, yes!
The premise for discovering this method of tying is this: putting a LOOP is the same as putting a TWIST in the rope. I realized then, if one of the wraps (in the “wraps on the hand method”) was replaced with a twist (as in the other well known method), an Alpine Butterfly Knot could also be tied. A “HYBRID” Butterfly if you will. :
Soon, I discovered other variant methods, two of which make tying the “bend version” of the Alpine Butterfly (aka Strait Bend) particularly easy. And although these methods are not difficult to execute, they are rather difficult to convey in words alone. So I will soon (tomorrow) put a video on Youtube.
[quote="Dan_Lehman post:13, topic:3230"]
[/quote]
(Although, to some extent, the torque of what some
have called the "twirly flop" method leads to an orientation of the eye legs that
might have benefit.)
If I understand you correctly Dan, by “orientation of the eye legs” (whether the legs are oriented crossed or parallel to themselves), you can actually change the orientation through 360 deg. (180 deg. in either direction) by rotating the R. wrist as you pull the eye loop.
Update; I’m having car and computer problems.
The knot tying video has been down-prioritized until these issues are resolved. I will inform when it has been uploaded.
Alpineer, you should EDIT your prior post to add in the ’
[/quote]
’ end to my words,
and, while you’re at it, correct my typo in ‘torquer’–which I just did in original.
I don’t think that rotation is so free, but one can arrange the cross to be
with legs on either side, in addition to abutting. This is likely going to
come with torsion, one way or the other; but given some method(s),
torsion leads the orientation to be just so–YMMV on circumstance.
As your method has the eye-bight just drawn up through the loops
from a presumably untorsioned free-hanging state, it will naturally
form the abutted version; in the “twirly-flop” method, the twisting
can build and induce a crossed-legs version (and maybe the only
reason Wright & Magowan specified that was in recognition of it
and a go-with-the-flow rationale vs. ending up with torsion in the
eye!? How well, or whether, the legs will remain so crossed, if …,
can hinge on the exact form and loading and thus whether the
S.Part draws to hold it vs. undo it.
–dl*
ps: Good luck w/car & computer --I’m too well & recently familiar with such things.
Twist is an important part of each knots structure and can be seen as part of a knots ‘signature’ - its essence, so to speak.
Torsion is the unresolved twist created by the tying process.
Alpineers method of winding around the hand, allows the required whole turn of twist to be resolved out into the ‘working end’ or if in line, the ‘working line’. The pull and fold does not induce any further twisting so the final knot is free from torsion.
Twirly flop, by contrast, tends to concentrate about a half turn of torsion into the final loop causing it to dress with a twist in response to this retained torsion.
I doubt we would ever be able to quantify the impact of these differences, but from a purist standpoint, the Alpineer method and the ‘round the hand and cast off’ method are preferable because they are less likely to leave any torsion within the knot.
Yes, actually, rotation is free and easy up to 180 deg. in either direction, but only one direction at a time. When pulling the ‘Roundturn’ to form the ‘Eye Bight’, orientation of the ‘working’ hand determines the direction of “free rotation”. So, the HYBRID METHOD is unique in that all three ‘Eye’ variants can be formed (with ease). Note that ‘pulling and rotation’ should be done simultaneously to achieve more consistent results.
Car issue is resolved. Computer still giving grief.
Good analyzing Derek. I find it interesting (even exciting) that this method has such flexibility, being able to tie even the ‘crossed legs’ versions with a simple twist of the wrist in either direction as the Roundturn is pulled to form Eye Bight. It’s a method ready for the future if anyone should be able to quantify the differences.
Hmmm, here’s where I differ: if you are twisting the round turn,
you put torsion into it, same as the other method–and that has
to go somewhere. If one simply forms the initial wraps W/O the
natural twisting onto the had, the one connected wrap should
form a fig.8 from the torsion.
Some play with all these ways can shed light,
but I’ve fallen flat on my face from the edge of my seat anticipating
the next interesting installment from A_S Down Under!
ps: Meanwhile, there is on-going pursuit of some of the origins of
the Lineman’s Loop (aka “Butterfly” aka “Alpine B.”): CLDay cites
a 1914 (15?) work by Burger, and we might be able to get some
kind of copy of this. [[u]AKS, 4th , #81 p.80] This precedes the
Wright & Magowan publication; Day cites Burger as reporting that
the knot was used by linemen, esp. telephone linemen; it would
be great to find some prior literature from their employer(s).
