Fancywork supplies: recommendations?

Since we now have a Fancywork sub-forum (THANK YOU, Moderatii!), I thought I’d start a post and let others chime in as they see fit as to where to get supplies for doing FANCY WORK knotting. This would include small line, glues, varnishes and the like, or anything else useful that would appeal to we fimble-fungered fools.

Please don’t post actual pricing and please don’t post if you have an interest in the concern. Let’s keep this as a neutral informational post, not an advertizer’s jumble.

To start: Cyanoacrylate Glue in bulk.

As many of you know from my past drivels, I am a proponent of using cyanoacrylate glue for many purposes (*)in doing small fancywork, but getting some at a decent cost has been rather difficult. Every time I find what I think is a “good deal”, the company goes out of business or the prices escalate and getting it in bulk from sources in the UK is economically unsound by the time I pay shipping, customs and packing charges. Indeed, I run a good chance that the dunderknopfen in US Customs will unilaterally decide that Ca is a WMD and never deliver it at all.

Finally I found a good US source for this stuff and thought I’d share…

Woodenwonders (http://woodenwonderstx.com/WWBlue/NewGlueWS.html) is a master distributor for EZ Bond CA glues, and you can really get some nice pricing on 16oz bottles of the stuff. They also have smaller bottles into which you can decant the glue for convenient working sizes, caps and “wicking tips” which are just a super idea, as well as 2oz bottles of the glue if you don’t need a big bottle. (Edited 08-26-08)

I use this stuff (the THIN formula) to “tip” my lines for weaving turksheads, to prevent the end of a line from “fagging out” while being tucked or braided (especially in squareknotting) and for a dozen other little things. (**)

They also sell “De-bonder” (GET SOME! It’s really helps to be able to get this stuff OFF a surface if you have an ‘oopsie’!) as well as accelerator to speed up drying, although nine times out of ten you won’t need it with the thin formula and cotton/linen lines.

Anyway, check out the website for more info or send an email to Mannie at the site.

Vince

i I will take a line I’m going to use for a turkshead and “tip” the end (about 1/2 inch or so) with CA, let it dry (a matter of a minute at most with cotton / linen / flax / hemp lines, then clip the line at a 45 degree angle giving me a hard end with a chisel point for weaving multi-strand turksheads, doing larger needlehitch, anything where you have to pass the line multiple times thru the body of the work, thus eliminating the need for those brass threading needles. Unlike them, it adds almost nothing to the weight of the line and will easily stay stiff for as long as the job takes. To prevent fagging, just a wee drop on the line’s end and it’ll stay secure through just about any contortion you may put it thru

(**) I also use CA in place of other preservatives for coating things like a tool handle or anything that will receive hard usage. The CA bonds with the ropework and makes the finished product pretty “bulletproof”; in fact, you’d better be pretty (censored) sure that the fancywork is exactly where you want it before coating, because once you do, it AIN’T moving again!

A lot of people like varnish. (I like the look) The way it coats the work and makes the surface smooth is very traditional, while CA penetrates the fabric of the line and does not give a 'smooth" surface finish. But the CA surface gives a far superior ‘grip’ to the handle, so it’s really (as Daedalus said to Icarus) [/i]a matter of a pinion as to which is better. It also dries in a very brief time by comparison.

Anyhoo… for those who may be interested, there it is.

More to follow.

If I find a source for this stuff I’ll let you know.

TH54

I like the military paracord and I’ve been very pleased with the service I get from these folks.

http://www.supplycaptain.com/

If anyone can give me a tip on a supplier of 2 mm satin “rattail” cord, I would be sooooo grateful! They must be reliable and have reasonable prices, of course! :wink:

Lasse C

Since you asked (and because I did a recent survey of my suppliers), I’ve got a reasonable supply of 2mm nylon (about a week turn around if you want more spools than I have on-hand), an excellent supply of 2mm rayon (33 colours but it is imported from Japan so the quality is excellent with all strands dyed before construction, but the shipments are twice a month and the prices also imported from Japan). I also have located a supplier in China. All colours including custom colours and custom varigation are available but quantities are measured in partial shipping containers and I have not yet mustered up the courage to tried importing directly from the manufacturer. Here’s the list of what I have on hand http://daoofsilk.com/catalog/cord/satin/

I have a roll of dark brown French fishing line, about 1.5 mm bought in Brittany last year, which is invaluable. I wish I’d bought more.

Any chandlery or fishing tackle supplier would be worth investigating.

Happy New Year to everyone. :slight_smile:

Diana.

I had good results for 2mm satin cord from The Satin Cord Store, seemed to have the best price on spools and large color selection.

Capt. Larry

Lasse, i got my rattail from here http://store.crafta.com/ribbons---bows-rat-tail.html
not satin, but real nice stuff lots of colors an price not to bad. dont know about shipping to u

Thanks!
I checked them out, and they do have a very good selection, and their price on the nylon rattail cord seems unbeatable! Since my younger son makes chainmail jewellery (yes, we are into crafts and arts in our family) and they also have anodized aluminium rings in nice colours we are planning an order!

Lasse C

Hi. I have found a supplier of leather lace in the U.K.
They have stocks of various sizes, I think the 4mm goat leather lace (5 colours) is the best for braiding and interweave turks heads. I can’t see this advertised on the web site but if you are interested try phoning Steve…The company is BFnT.co.uk

I have now recieved my order, and must say I am very pleased! Placed my (our) order on their webpage in the morning (local time) - on the evening the same day I had confirmation of the order, and on the next day a message that the stuf was in the mail. About 1? weeks later it arrived.

So: Quick and excellent service, very good quality (my son was overjoyed with the colours of the anodized alu rings he bought) and very good prices. Could not really ask for more. So, thanks again for the recommendation!

Lasse C

Additional information: (US)

Cotton line: http://www.knotstuff.com Marty Combs. Excellent 18ga thru 120 ga cotton lines, some hemp lines and a lot of tools and BOOKS galore!

RAYON blind cord: http://www.rwrope.com R&W Rope (Bob Dollar). Mini-blind RAYON cord, many colours and sizes, reasonable pricing. Also a traditional rigging shop and access to most of the things you’d expect there: Stockholm tars, fine manilas, even better man-made manila-like cordage, hemp twine, marline, palms, needles, blocks, etc.

NOTE: I have been mis-identifying the RAYON cord as NYLON. My apologies.

What great links! Thanks frayedknotarts.

I’ve been trying to read all I can from all of you to figure out which sizes of rope I need to get started. It helps a lot when I see pictures of completed projects that have the size description in the captions.

Why are there so many different measurements, i.e.; inches, mm, ply or ga? I know how to convert inches to metric, but I have no idea about “ply” or “ga”. Does #18 = 18ga and how does that fit in with inches or metric?

Any recommendations for a beginner? I can’t afford to buy all the sizes. Sorry, I know this is probably elementary to you guys.

NOTE THIS POST HAS CORRECTED ERRORS IN BOLD (10-30-08)

Anything but elementary, and complicated by the different measuring sizes used over time, from “gauge” to “Thread” to Inches and metric.

I would get a roll of 1.4mm white braided polyester mini-blind cord to start off with… this is sufficiently small to produce nice work and yet large enough to learn on without too much trouble. I am not fond of “paracord” (about 2.4mm) for anything as it is too large and soft, IMHO.

Generally (and I am absolutely open to correction on this), very fine knot work requires a 8 ga. hard cotton line (codline) which is about 3/32" in diameter. This may sound small, but the size, combined with the hard lay of the line will produce superior square-knot and fine braiding work. This is about .9 mm in diameter. This would produce (for example) about a 32-line square-knot belt (8 knots wide) at 1-1/2" across.

Marty’s smallest really hard-laid line is about a real 18ga (he calls it #15) and is about 3/16" dia. This will produce about a 20-line (5 knot) belt at 1-1/2".

R&W has line from .8mm thru 3.0mm in braided POLYESTER MINI-BLIND CORD as well as hemp lines in about 1.8mm.

Finding a really good line is probably the toughest thing about doing knotwork and it’s why I started this thread.

The “creme da la creme” of knotting line was the “Dreadnaught” cord sold by PC Herwig from appx. 1927 thru 1970 or so when the company went out of business. It was an 8 ga. hard cotton cord, sized (starched) and polished and came in six colours from white thru a truly awful yellow, but it was by far the absolute best thing for doing half-hitch belts, fine squareknot work and especially for making up fine braids for picture frames. (Some of the “old salts” from the USN will remember this as “Belfast Cord” sold (jobbed off) by GEMSCO at Naval Exchanges the world over. It was Herwig’s Dreadnaught cord in disguise!) I’ve searched for five years now for a manufacturer who could replicate this cordage and have come up empty.

Marty’s cotton lines are superb, and R&W’s POLYESTERS are just great… both have their place and both produce completely different results.

I heartily recommend a reading (or purchase!) of Raoul Graumont and John Hensel’s “Encyclopedia of Knots and Fancy Ropework” (Cornell Maritime 1944) if for nothing else than their section and photos of square-knot work, most of the photos for which were originally taken for use in Herwig’s “Square-Knotting Books”, #1, #2 and #3. If you have the Encyclopedia, there no need of the Herwig pamphlets as it is all contained in the Encyclopedia. (incidentally, get a post-1952 edition of this if possible… the earlier ones have sections of the index missing!)

Again, I grow long-winded.

Vince

Thanks so much for the great explanation and recommendations, Vince, and as for “growing long-winded”, you have my permission to blow like a hurricane!!! lol That’s just what I needed. I wish we lived closer, I’d love buy you a beer and just have a good ole’ rope tying chat. Thanks again.

So happens you live not too far away from Don Burrhus of “The Turks Head Cook Book” fame. Look it up on line and get his email. He lives in Orange City.

Thanks for the heads up, Vince.
I had bookmarked his page the other day not even realizing he’s less than an hour from my house. I’ve emailed him and hopefully he’ll write back soon. 8)

CORRECTED POST 24-03-09 CORRECTED POST 24-03-09 CORRECTED POST 24-03-09 CORRECTED POST 24-03-09 CORRECTED POST 24-03-09

TREVOR JUST EMAILED ME THAT HE IS NO LONGER IN PRODUCTION OF THIS PRODUCT. SORRY!

[s]More line recommendations:

For fine work you will want to try the hard laid (appx #9 size) cotton line produced by Trevor Tutt of Texas. EMAIL him for pricing as he has not yet updated his site and the pricing there is a little out of date.

Trevor produces 100’ hanks of line by hand and the consistancy and finish is excellent. It is a bit “pricey” but you get what you pay for, no question. For fine, tight work, this stuff cannot be beat. He will supply it sized (stiffened) or un-sized, and in bleached cotton (a very lite ecru approaching eggshell white) or natural (more of a middle-cream or lite tan) colour. Unsized is best if you intend to dye it.

His site is www.oldbelfast.net[/s]

Now, I’d mentioned Don Burrhus in a previous post. His site, www.knottool.com sells a contraption that you use to make up eccentric turksheads quickly and easily. It works well but isn’t my cuppa tea, precisely.

What IS my cuppa tea are the threading needles he sells, the books he carries and the fact that if you need a custom tool for knotting work, talk to Don: he’s a total wizard at making things and will have you fixed up in jig time. (Talk to him about Delrin spikes and such for knotting on a long air trip!) Click on CUSTOM WORK in his navigational bars.

Thanks, Vince. I’ve been emailing back and forth w/Don (fyi he spoke highly of you!). He’s given me a few links already and they even have a “local knot tyers gathering? (very informal, just getting together and tying knots?)” How cool is that??? 8)

These are the links he recommended to me.
You might want to check out www.khww.net as there are some great knotters there.
Also, you will need to join the following to stay informed:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/knottyers/
and
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Marlinspikeknotworks/
Both are excellent. Lost of great people, many of them are well known knot tyers.
-Don Burrhus

If there was ever a need for a “newbie” sticky, I think this thread should be at the top of that list. I hope it doesn’t stop but I’ve got to tell you, I feel like you did when you read the “Bell Ringing Knot?” thread when you said, “I now have more stuff to clutter what’s left of my mind!” There is so, so much material here. I feel overwhelmed but at the same time excited. I just need to make up my mind and start tying something. lol

I really want to do a knot board. Do you have any recommendations for mats? And which size of line and do cotton or nylon mats look better? How are they attached to the board? I was going to try spray on glue (I ruined a white nylon double star knot with super glue, it turned hard as a rock and brown) but then I thought of using a dark green or blue felt backing, so would I have to use tiny nails and try to hide them in the strands? Sorry, guess I’m getting away from the purpose of the thread which you have been great with your outstanding recommendations so far.

The link below has a lot of info on cord sizes.
http://www.khww.net/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=791&pid=7612#post_7612