From the Pocket of DerekSmith

General Discussion
1

Just to keep the juices flowing, here is one that popped into existence when I was trying out Bowline-esque variants of tying with the quick overhand loop method detailed on the Layhands Site

http://igkt.pbwiki.com/f/Clamp-Bwl-sml.gif

It’s a Bk with a Blt plus an extra twisted wrap (ca half hitch) around the Bk. It’s easy to tie and gives the Bwl and Sbend variants of the knot some interesting enhancements stemming from its constrictor like ‘self holding’ once set.

First, the Bk is double wrapped, with the tightest wrap being furthest from the tip of the Bk loop. In the Bwl form, both ends of this double wrap are loaded. This double wrap effectively doubles the contact area of the two Bk strands with each other, increasing overall friction and reducing the chance of slippage of the free end.

In the Sbend, the tang of the buckle part is held in place by a single strand of the loaded part. If the load relaxes, the clamping pressure is lost with the chance of the tang escaping. In this knot however, the tang is boxed in by itself on all four sides. Relaxation of the loaded part only relaxes one of these wraps offering greater security against this part being released.

When dressed and set, this knot seems to be much more robust than Bk,Blt in all of the usable formats. I was particularly impressed with its performance as a bend and was unable to induce slippage in any of the slipping formats of Bk,Blt. see 5-8 and 15,16 in the Bk,Blt table. The Eskimo Bwl. form was made significantly more secure with a securing wrap both sides of the exiting SP.

Strength/Weakness. As this knot has all the same curves and radii at the force transfer points, I doubt that this knot is much stronger than Bk,Blt in use. However, there is an opportunity for improved strength. The Bk part has an additional wrap helping transfer force into and from the working part. The working part of the Blt has likewise a small additional opportunity to transfer force before making the first tight wrap around the Bk part.

Tying. Not as quick to tie as the KnotMaster flip method, but using the overhand loop type method, it’s not far behind and it is pretty easy to remember. The trouble is, I do not have KC’s skill with Flash, because that is probably the best tool short of animated CAD to illustrate how to tie a knot. So here is a shot at using probably the poorest medium.

Take the end with the SPart going away from you and lay it across your hand, palm upwards. Take the end down and up the back of your fingers so that it lays alongside the SPart and on the fingertips side of the SPart.

Bring the end forward and over the top of the SPart, then down again between the SPart and the thumb.

Take the end down the back of the hand, then up and across the palm to lay between the thumb and the SPart.

Take the end down and behind the SPart, then back up and down across the fingers, alongside the two previous strands laying across your palm. The end should be laying between the two strands and your fingertips.

Form the end into a bight and pass it across your palm, under the two strands and towards your wrist.

If you are forming a bend, pass the end of the second cord into the loop of the bight. If you are forming a loop, take the end leaving the bight and pass it around and into the bight loop.

Pull the bight loop back through under the two loops. Tighten, dress and set the knot.

This method makes the knot in the Eskimo style and is particularly good for loops, the two loop cords leave the knot in a particularly balanced manner, the SPart having one wrap on each side before the loop cords leave the knot. To tie the knot in a conventional SBend style, then the end you tie the knot with must be the SPart.

Overs Index

This knot has two strands and four ends and is therefore capable of as many variations as the Bk,Blt - 37 variants plus another 37 mirror versions. Once set however, the knot is so firm, there seems to be little difference to the form of the knot no matter how it is loaded.

Opened up slightly (so as to retain the basic form) and applying the new ‘End of knot Rule’ the knot is 12:18

http://igkt.pbwiki.com/f/Clamp-Bwl-open-sml.gif

So, is this knot already registered and named?

2

hi Derek, i couldn’t open the links,
could you repost some illustration of it?

thanks. Al

3

You have attempted to resurrect a very old post from Derek Smith - 19 years old! The age of the original post likely explains why the links are dead.

Derek uses acronyms without explaining what they mean (he assumes readers are cognizant of meanings - so I assume he is aiming his post at experienced knot tiers with high level theoretical knowledge).
He also appears to be pointing to a claim of originality with his last sentence?

I note that Derek Smith hasn’t been active on this IGKT website for quite some time - he is missed. He was a lively debater and a strong advocate for maintaining traditional interpretations of knots. For example, Derek was vehemently against the term ‘eye’ in lieu of ‘loop’ - he argued strongly against the idea of ‘eye’. When I pressed him on his preference, the pushback was essentially grounded in tradition - eg Ashley never used the term ‘eye’ - instead using the term ‘loop’ - and Derek regards Ashley as an authoritative source.

My pushback was that Ashley’s work was published some 80 years ago. Knot knowledge has advanced considerably over the past 80 years - many new discoveries have been made. The concept of a ‘loop’ versus a ‘turn’, versus a ‘hitch’, versus a ‘bight’, has been more refined. Ashley did not define chirality - although he appears to have had a basic understanding of the concept.

Derek would not yield his position - and likely never will. I respect him for his strong views , scientific mind, and strong adherence to traditional interpretations. One day, he might yield to more modern interpretations of knots.

I think Derek is trained as an aeronautical engineer?

If you’re reading this Derek, hopefully you will make a return to contributing on this IGKT website? Xarax might even make a triumphant return (I have been given a green light to contact Xarax with a view to convincing him to return).

Some links that might help you:

http://allaboutknots.blogspot.com/ (Dick Chisholm)

The Most Useful Rope Knots for the Average Person to Know (Dave Root)

I think Derek was referencing info from Dave Root website… direct link to page is here: Single-Loop Knots

4

heh thanks agent_smith, i eventually realised that the post was old as since Howard was p.m!;
anyway, yes i got lost from ‘Bk’;
and now with these current links from you, my open tabs on knots is back up to 7!

also looking forward to the return of Xarax, DerekSmith, others, and the accompanying chat :slight_smile: