Knots used in guitar strings

General Discussion
1

A friend said that recently he tried to re-string his neighbor’s classical guitar. Most guitar strings have a knob at the end to hold them in place when they are threaded through the holes in the bridge of the guitar, but apparently classical guitar strings are tied to the bridge of the guitar. He Googled how to tie the strings, but couldn’t get it to work, so he asked me about it. Interestingly, it turns out that classical guitar strings are tied with a form of Timber Hitch.

Found these pics online:

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPAGES/Musician/Guitar/Setup/Classical/ClassicStr/ClassicStrViews/pulledtight6th.JPG

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPAGES/Musician/Guitar/Setup/Classical/ClassicStr/ClassicStrViews/goodbridge.JPG

Dave

2

My goodness, Dave - that’s the way I used to attach my guitar strings - but then it’s just the tension put on the string that holds it in place, not a knot, as such. So I’ve been knot tying for years and never been aware of it - apart from tying me shoe-laces of course.

Lesley
Webadmin and guitarist only - not a knotter

3

Hi Dave and Lesley,
Think it may be more a form of a single hitch, ABOK #1663 or #1594 as well as other refference to single hitch when adjusted to nip on a shoulder, than timber hitch. Make one pass and adjust for the nip. The timber hitch has at least several passes through the loop, and let the nip fall where it may. Somewhere in ABOK this variation is also a halyard bend, I think. Lesley, I too tied it in strings for my x-wife#?x. The instrument would not accept the little knobbley things that came on the strings from the store. For all of our members and visitors who do not mess about with plucked string instruments here is an interesting fact… the tension in the strings is often at 100% of the wire strength. It warps (distortes) the neck of the instrument, tears out the anchors and strings snap. The deck of the instrument may twist under the tension. So the attachments and the anchors put a max strain on the knot or attachment. Since this is nipped so securely it offers nearly (I can’t prove this) 100% of the wire tensional strength. The string elongates with use and temperature change. Hence the noggy little winches at the head to yard in the slack.

4

Ummmmm i think more properly an Extended Half Hitch to better Nip? i try to understand and go by mechanics; and i think this is common error in understanding these essential building blocks; that then carries over/ compounds by birthing many more misunderstandings; thus making these primary points pivotal to decoding rest.

Please notice that the strongest, most proper pinch/ nip/ sieze is 180 degrees from the initiating pull of the Standing Part (IMLHO). If nipped at 360 (at Standing Part itself); is a Standard Half Hitch(less secure); there is less pressure, as the Standing Part can be pulling trap off of Bitters/ end slightly. Also these bend the Standing Part to leverage forces and thins that part of line to ‘weaken’ line at that point, the bend by a line being a sharper bend than bending Standing Part by host mount(Single Hitch). If essential nipping is on either side (90 or 270 etc.) trapping pressure is not as intense, and the pull direction of any stretch/ rotation/ slip is not into the body of the host mount, but rather dragging around. So, nipping to side / not inline axis of Standing Part’s pull is poorer, because of compromised pressure and direction to nip/ sieze securely.

More properly i think a Single / Simple Hitch goes around a smaller host mount to reduce pulling force in Bitters, then this reduced force is trapped/ siezed / nipped most immediately by the maximum/ initiating/ available to system force of the Standing Part directly itself, trapping the lesser/ reduced force in Bitters. This gives maximum trapping pressure/ all available to overpower the remaining pull in Bitters, but this positioning is not always available. The ‘Extended Half Hitch’ shown, may argueabley reduce the remaining pull/ line tension in Bitters to be trapped/ nipped easier; but essentially doesn’t place 100% available/ maximum line tension on the Bitters, for the Standing Part tension is reduced, by the friction; and the bight bends the Standing Part sharper than the host mount would. The Single Hitch properly doesn’t have this bight, or it’s bend.

A Timber HItch starts off as a BackHand, then spirals around self to make like a loose braid/ splice (in my imagery). This could be seen as a Half Hitch; but the loose splice imagery tries to show the flow of force after the formed bight/ eye is more inline flow, than perpendicular (like would be in Single and Half Hitches). Thus initial trapping/ siezing/ nipping is to side in Timber. i think the final nip should be at the same maximum point / 180 from Standing Part’s in an inline and not a side wards pressure; or at least thru this essential point. Actually in same region, but a little past; so any stretch/ slip around would trap into the ‘hill’ at 180 on the mounting; and have to walk itself into more pressure; whereas if it walked/ ‘fell’ off this hill it would be ‘walking’ into less pressure/ path of less force/resistance (that things Natureally like to take, if offered). Further spiraling braid to Timber to trap/ sieze nip being under less inline pressure and direction/ less consequence; unless a more dynamic / changing situation of initiating force and direction; whereby these now ‘extra’ braids/ wraps around self help to secure through intermittent pulls at varying directions etc.

Not trying to out trump/ 1 up; just the way i see it(and think of it as pivotal/ worth noting), and figure half the time Dano will prove me wrong anyway; so am just lending my view to the mix as any other!

edit: 100% tensile used?? Then it would seem that strumming would raise tension and break?? Also, that would mean line would have to be straight/ no bend until 100%(+?) terminatin is met on both ends and travel route of force??

Okay, i’ll shut up now… :-X

5

Picture 1 in my original post is the only close-up picture that I saw, but take a look at the 3 strings on the right in picture 2. Those are more like Timber Hitches (to my eye), in the sense that they are wrapped around several times and rely on the “nipping effect” just like Timber Hitches do.

Dave

6

Hi KC, Yepum, I think you are correct: The strumming would break the string when the tune tension was at 100%. My xwife had a noggy little electronic device with LED lights and all that and string tension was at the max. I can’t play a note but I sure bought a boat load of strings. I think it may be universal as my cousin sells strings and seems to always have a market. If the strings are used at 1/2 tension then a set would last 1000 years? As to the knot in question, yes the photo seems to show two different knots. We need some string instrument folks to fix the situation and explain. Good fun?

7

The lower sounding strings are metal coiled round a core of thin nylon fibres. When new it will hold a sharp bend and will take tied to the guitar easily, maybe they even add a different core to the end of some strings.
If your string breaks near the bridge end (rare) and you try to restring it you will find it a lot harder.

The higher sounding strings are solid nylon, (monofilament?) and do not take knots easily, so more twists, as in a timber hitch are needed.

If you want to have a hard task, try to string a guitar made for metal strings, (with the blobs on the ends,) with nylon strings. The nylon strings are difficult to tie into the little blobs needed.

Willeke

8

I play a little bit of classical guitar, and I’ve always tied all of my strings with the timber hitch. It’s a little difficult to tie in such small, stubborn monofilament, but it gets the job done. I’m not sure if that’s the traditional way, but it works for me.