Maybe somebody can help me identifiying this loop.
It is an interesting construction very difficult to jam when well dressed.
The final exit of the returning limb acts as a pin.
It is easy to untie playing with the upper collar.
Can it be some hitch unknown to me that I use as a loop?
Hi Xarax,
I did indeed tie this loop with 2 turns in the first place, but I like the simplicity of its ‘nude’ form.
Your third link shows nice loops, (Blackwall hitch based) I will tie them later on.
In the pictures below, I show the two version (180 and 360) tied in Dynalight.
Yes I purchased recently the onerous rope in view of future slippery test.
The 180 version holds my human strength but we know it’s not enough for publication since the rope can go 3500kg!
Done some human scale tests with the Helical loop and the Unknown loop with two wraps (crossing knot base loop at the beginning of this thread).
I wanted to test the slipping behavior of both loops with Dyneema.
I used a marlinspike hitch (piece of wood in the nub) succesively on both legs of each loops to be able to grab and pull with my full weight.
An anchor hitch stabilized the standing part.
One leg of the Helical loop did slip transforming it into a noose. (See which one on the first picture)
The two wraps version on the Unknown loop held throughout the test without slipping, but I dont know what a greater mechanical force would do.
Sorry if it feels like a comparison to you. Of course, I knew that they were two different beasts!
P.S. Forget the "human scale" when you deal with Dyneema ! If you are talking about ropes, or even cords, and not fishing linesPartly agreable assertion but the fact remains that the Helical Loop in the form you presented did'nt pass a very simple 'Human scale' test. What will happen if we put more stress to it is for you to decide! For me this simple 'human scale' test provides an easy way to elimanate a contender in the long journey toward the ideal Dyneema's made loop. As for the 'Unknown loop' I think I was clear;
but I dont know what a greater mechanical force would do.But for now it's still a contender.
you should had better "tested" the knot with a non-slippery rope,Clearly not the point here, I am sure your helical loop will pass any test in non-splippery rope, you seem to have done that but; As I pointed out I am looking for the beast who can pass the test in Dyneema so;
and I am sure you had not even paid any attention to it, is the force with which you had pre-tensioned the knotI tested in Dyneema and believe me the knot was very well dress. If one day you decide to possess such a rope you will then soon realize that the dressing in this material is of the utmost importance, it is too slippery to endure bad forms. The old apparatus was tied with an Anchor Hitch (which by the way behave first class with my Dyneema) to an fix steel metal structure. Do I have to point out how a Marlinspike hitch works? I think not.
and the "human scale" you are so proud ofProud of the "human scale" ??????
In short;
An Unknown loop with two wraps made of Dyneema will not slip in the conditions of testing descrided before. (Human scale, marlinspike etc.)
The Helical Loop shown at reply #4 failed the same test.
Why did I bother to do that?
Simply because when I tied the Helical one and that I verified the behavior of both legs I noticed that one leg slipped (about 1 cm) which was enough to awake my suspicion, so I had to go further.
I was comparing a loop to a loop (apples to apples) until I realize that one was a noose in disguise.
Sorry if it offended you.
That all there is to it!
I dont know what heavier loading test will prove neither do you. And if the Unknown loop fails further test, so be it. we will find another one to try!
But in the meantine maybe you could buy some modern Spectre of Dyneema, get the feel of it, and share your own observations.
Why?
Because I think we should look in that direction, that is where lies the challenge since the companies who make this material dont provide any alternative other than eye splicing.
Hi Enhaut
Neat little loop which I rather like - has some semblance to the Perfection Loop which I use frequently (I know it can jam but it’s quick and easy in string, baler twine etc in the garden). For the record the Unknown Loop won’t work in elasticated cord (bungee cord) - which you probably know already. It holds under tension OK but springs apart as soon as the tension is released. I shall certainly give it a try in everyday use and see what knotters who never look at the forum (probably the majority) think of it. Thought of a name yet?
Barry
Hi Barry,
I agree with you and Xarax; this loop is not made for harsh uses; its limitations are unknown. Its base structure can benefits some remodelling after the two wrapping turns exit the nub; there is a lot of possible solutions.
You provide a nice insight that I was not aware of regarding the bungee cord.
Almost a child’s loop easy to tie and remember, a basic fix loop for everyday use? In some cases, yes.
As for naming it, I suspect that somewhere in time somebody has already name it; beiing so straightforward this arrangement had to be found.
So let’s stick with Unknown.
If I am not mistaken that would be Xarax’ solution of the 2 turns in nip tag exit.
A nice one.
even if I am not tying it as such.Glad you precise that! All the fuss about TIB and we never see the real result, I can imagine why; showing too much rope they are not really photogenic.