Our Guild Mission

General Discussion
61
I have been trying for some time to push the guild forward Its been a struggle. ... all thoughts and ideas will be gratefully recieved and I, as long as I am Chair of the committe, will be put to the committee.
Some time ago there was some scattered discussion in [i]KM[/i] regarding forming a [b]basic knots set[/b]; I submitted an article musing over this, but it didn't make the cut then--perhaps coming late enough that the issue was felt to be stale. But I also recommended to a past Chair that it should be good if the IGKT could create such a knots set for [b]recommending to scouting organizations[/b], which are at once (1) youth/future, (2) large in number, and (3) in need of some updating of their knots. In the absence of overall Guild action, one chapter took it upon themselves to create a set, and the [i]Surrey Six[/i] was born. (The extant set(s) of scouting knots arose in times of natural-fibre cordage; but today one is more apt to find polypropylene, polyester, & nylon.)

Anyway, I still think this would be a good way to ingratiate the IGKT with a
significant population.

And this need not be limited to practical knotting, esp. w/girl scouts, who might
more readily take to the decorative side as well.

I feel it is time to send a personalised letter to every magazine/organization to do with knots. Like (but not just) sailing magazines, outdoorsports, crafts (esp needlework with a broad view), scouting, .... In that letter can be a bit about the guild, international and per country on country level. Or even on local level for local magazines or groups.
Despite what Derek has remarked? --about his (even w/o help of a letter) finding the IGKT, but finding it wanting in interest to him? And as I remarked earlier, what of the IGKT is there to commend it to the serious rope user? I don't think we're there yet (on the [i]practical knotting[i/] side).

–dl*

62

Hi Carol,

I have taken the liberty to add your membership ideas to the ‘Road Map’ at http://igkt.pbwiki.com/IGKT%20Mission and credited them to you.

PS You have created a stunning visual style for your Chinese knots website. Your use of rainbow braid is not only attractive, it also allows the eye to follow the strand through the knot with greater accuracy. Your use of a standardised mannequin hand created excellent clarity of method.

Perhaps both of these could be considered as the defacto standard in the IGKT Knot Index

63

Willeke: what you are describing sounds very much like a press release. Having recently taken a class on the topic, what you describe makes a lot of sense. Press packages take some work, but what they do is make publishing an article by a magazine or newspaper easy, because you’ve already written it for them. You’ve given all the information and resources and wording they need tied up with a neat bow. They will sometimes take you up on an interview (to change focus or expand on the piece you’ve written which is no more than 2 pages), sometimes they will rewrite the article in their own voice, but as often as not, they will drop the whole thing verbatim into their publication. Much less work for them that way. Publications like press releases.

For the guild to undertake this, they (we? 8) should write a template release with a few guidelines and goals, then ask for volunteers from the membership for targets (publications, guilds, groups, etc) and localization assistance (eg. get a scout leader to tailor the release for scouting organizations, get a local to tailor the release for a local boating group)

Derek: thanks so much for the feedback. I have tried to cull the best practices from the various books and magazine articles that I have observed. My methods are, therefore, by no means original and if others want to use them, they are more than welcome. The goal has always been to make pictoral instructions so clear that the text that accompanies it is redundant and unnessary so that an international audience that may not (fully or at all) understand your language can still use your instructions (I have far more Chinese, Japanese, Korean and one Czech! craft books than I have English ones and my lack of fluency or literacy in those languages hinder me only slightly).

64

To Carol and Willeke,

I think that, if the IGKT ever asks for such a press release, you may well be the people to whom the Guild should turn, because your energy in that direction is positive and certainly well-intentioned and well thought through. Dan’s point about whether or not the Guild actually is able to back up the release without first having checked out the local talent, the availability, a local and knowledgeabe contact, etc is also very valid and perhaps we should make such a request to the Council prior to putting in effort such as this?

To all our faithful readers and writers,

Prior to all of the above, however, should we also ask the Secretary or President of the Guild for the Council’s desired direction in ratifying, denying, rewriting or in any other way saying that the Guild Mission is where it should be and that it looks like what we do (or have truly committed to do) as a group? It would be horribly embarassing to have a Mission that we cannot support or that we cannot say exactly where we AS A GROUP are meeting the Mission Statement.

Lindsey

65
P. S. Luv that this site allows Flash animations; many don't!
[b]Please do not post Flash animations on this forum.[/b]

This site and forum are hosted in the UK which has specific laws regarding web sites and what they might/might not offer to disabled people. Some animations can trigger photo-epilepsy which could in turn result in a formal complaint against this forum. Others, such as the one posted in this thread, are not accessible to anyone who cannot use a mouse - which could result in a complaint of disability discrimination.

In the interestes of protecting IGKT against any such complaints, I would strongly recommend that any animations are posted on an external site and only the urls are posted here.

Thank you.

66
This is exactly the kind of thing that should be in an area of its own on our web-page - how about it Mel?Lindsey
I am more than happy to help with any suggestions for additions to the site - although I would have to wait for formal approval from IGKT's web adminstrator before going ahead.

However, I think it only fair to warn you that, with regard to animations, they would need to comply with current guidelines and UK legal requirements for access by disabled people. Videos are another possibility but, likewise, each video would need to be accompanied by full text and audio transcripts.

It’s all do-able but may be a little more complex than most people envisage if you get into the realms of multimedia.

Mel

67

Hi Mel and KC,

Please pardon that I was not aware of the UK’s restrictions on public forums. When replying to KC I had in mind that a separate part of the Forum would be helpfully set off from the other three principal areas. If that can still be achieved within the rules, so that readers then can choose what they read, how may I help to get that in place? KC - did Mel’s comments throw any light on your thoughts? PM me and we’ll talk,

Lindsey

68
[b]Please do not post Flash animations on this forum.[/b]

AMEN!!
AMEN!!
AMEN!!!

Ditto for any other “spinning, flaming logos”!! And that goes for Microsoft’s abominable “Marquee” as well! It doesn’t help convey information, it just annoys people.

The only thing that should move on your screen is your own mouse pointer!

Animated GIF files aren’t usually too big, but fall into Webmistress’ “visual trigger” category*, so please consider animated GIF’s as the same thing as flash, but without the extra software. (Not to mention that most knot animations stink!!)

Just keep reminding yourself: Animation is not Information.

*BTW, Webmistress, most people who have that type of epilepsy will have enough self-preservation instinct to disable Flash, animations, etc., and will use a Standards-based browser which doesn’t support the hideous “Marquee”. Oh, and you can disable all this in the YaBB setup! ;D

69
*BTW, Webmistress, most people who have that type of epilepsy will have enough self-preservation instinct to disable Flash, animations, etc., and will use a Standards-based browser which doesn't support the hideous "Marquee".
Internet Explorer still has about a 70% share of the market and I wouldn't call that a 'standards compliant browser'. :)

Seriously though, some people access the web via libraries or other semi-public machines where individual browser configuration isn’t allowed, so we need to bear in mind that, although the average home user should be be to disable some web page features, it doesn’t mean that they will:
a) have the knowledge/confidence to do so
or
b) have the option to do so in specific situations.

I’m not against animations, per se but I do think they need to be used carefully and appropriately.

Oh, and you can disable all this in the YaBB setup! ;D
I've had a quick look via the admin interface and didn't spot anything I could disable that wouldn't have a knock on effect elsewhere - such as stopping people uploading perfectly acceptable static images. However, I haven't checked through the setup script yet. Perhaps there's something in there I could ultilise if this ever becomes a real problem?

Generally speaking, I think it’s usually better to educate and explain the issues if possible. Most people simply don’t realise there are problems associated with specific types of multimedia and will usually react very positively once they do become aware. That means I can save rules and exclusions for only the most intransient cases.
:slight_smile:

70
Hi Mel and KC,

Please pardon that I was not aware of the UK’s restrictions on public forums.


No problem, Lindsey. Most people - including the owners of a few really big commercial sites - aren’t aware that the UK does have laws and guidelines covering all forms of electronic communication - including web sites.

For the most part, the DRC did try a softly-softly approach for 5 years but, when that didn’t work, started to make some more agressive rumbling sounds about a year ago. That culminated in a new BSI guideline document being released early last month which has meant that the whole issue of web site accessibility across the board has suddenly been thrown into quite a strong spotlight.

When replying to KC I had in mind that a separate part of the Forum would be helpfully set off from the other three principal areas. If that can still be achieved within the rules, so that readers then can choose what they read, how may I help to get that in place?

Given that forums are more discussion areas rather than reference sources, I’d suggest that a better place for some of the material might be on the main web site. People could then link back and forth within the forum without introducing any new problems. It would also open up the possibility of having alternative ‘accessible’ versions of some material (such as transcripts of videos or Flash presentations) available for those that needed it.

Defining what is, or what is not, accessible, within a web site, can be a complex business and, ideally, every case has to be judged on its own merits and then the appropriate action taken if necessary. With the greatest of respect to forum members, it has taken me 5 years to ‘learn’ accessible design techniques (and I’m still learning), so I don’t think it would be fair or reasonable to ask someone who didn’t have the technical background to make those sorts of decisions by throwing open an area of the forum to them and then saying “Oh - make sure it’s accessible”.

However, with the web admin’s OK, I’d be more than happy to work with forum members to develop an area of the web site that was designed to meet the necessary resource requirements and remained accessible within the current UK guidelines.

KC - did Mel's comments throw any light on your thoughts?
I did send KC some resources on developing accessible Flash presentations via a thread on the Feedback board that might help.
71

Perfect! Could that

However, with the web admin's OK, I'd be more than happy to work with forum members to develop an area of the web site that was designed to meet the necessary resource requirements and remained accessible within the current UK guidelines.

area also be made members-only access? Thanks so much Mel!

Lindsey

72
Perfect! Could that area also be made members-only access?
If you want a single username/password that every member uses, I can set up such a 'members only' area within minutes. In fact, it's something that Lesley and I discussed a while back but never managed to develop beyond the idea stage.

An area that used an individual usernname/password for every member (similar to the forum) is also do-able but, as it’s more complex, would take longer to set up and would require members to register to use it.

73

This thread started with a plea that the IGKT should begin to practice what it preaches - at least to practice what it claims in its Mission stament, and of these the first one is:-

1. To promote the art, craft and science of knotting, its study and practice

Without question, the IGKT needs to promote itself. Indeed, even this forum only has 16 pages of posts since 2004 and the last page of posts contains contributions from less than three dozen individuals. By todays standards, that is DEAD. Many Forums have hundreds of posters active at any moment and zip through a couple of pages of posts in a day.

However, within the last five posts alone there have been three major attempts to kill any interest the remaining few posters may have.

First we have an administrator posting instructions not to make posts too long because it might bore some people, particularly the administrators who feel duty bound to read everything in order to ensure safety of content. – Promote but only in small chunks –

Second we have the Webmistress herself, instructing posters not to post animations because they are not PC and because they do not have ‘mouse independent’ functionality. So that is – Promote but only use boreing text, No Animations Please - We’re British –

And finally and almost unbelievably, the person who started the thread with a plea for the IGKT to look to practice its Mission statements is, if I understand his last post correctly, requesting that the :-

area also be made members-only access?
And I think that comes out something like -- Promote, but only in secret, and only to those who already 'belong'. --

Now for those who do not understand. PROMOTE sort of means – Take it to those who do not already belong, give it to them and see if it interests them. Listen to their comments, implement them and thereby attract a wider and growing audience, then do it all again.

It does NOT mean – Strangle, Stifle and Hide behind locked passwords.

If you folks really want to grow the IGKT and implement the Mission Statements, then – Willeke, for all your excellent work, no one makes you do it. So, if the posts bore you then either don’t read them or quit administration. But if you decide to stay an administrator, please be thankful that you have something to administrate. If you get so pickie as to complain about too much boreing stuff to read, you might soon have nothing to administrate but your own posts.

– Webmistress, the IGKT site contains virtually nothing of interest to the majority of knotters. This is evidenced by the growing number of excellent sites offering an extensive array of graphics and content. It is the ‘I’ GKT, as in International, and although the site is hosted in the UK you aspire to an international status and an international audience. Now, although Britain is fast becoming a truely international Jackass with its ‘Baa Baa ‘Rainbow’ Sheep’ idiocy, you do the site no favours by reminding visitors that Britain is now a ‘Nation’ of PC pratts. And as for turning away someone who has spent considerable time and effort in creating a visual aid which very effectively opens the mind to the mechanics within a knot - you do the IGKT and its Mission a dire dis-service.

Finally – Lindsey. You claim that you want the IGKT to ‘Go Forward’ to ‘Meet its Mission Statement’. But I must ask - Is your agenda something totally different? Your request was not the sort of thing I would expect to hear from someone truely intent on promoting the IGKT. You cannot promote from inside a locked room with closed curtains. Your comment is more in line with the actions of a person intent upon gaining control. I do so hope that I am wrong !!

74
I have a dilemma and need some help. There are fifteen pages of knot forum postings on this web-site and not one of them has to do with the other two parts of our Mission.
Perhaps that's because this site is only intended to support one part of the Mission...

Call it “Public Outreach”…

Or not, but I hope you find this idea useful:

Trying to answer several postings, it suddenly dawned on me that there’s a really good model already available. Much is left unsaid…

Consider the World Wide Web Consortium.

This is a group of passionately interested, unpaid (or, at best underpaid) devoted individuals who have managed to define the way the world will communicate for the next century or so at least. And that despite (as Webmistress hinted) the persistent, determined assault by the richest man in the world, using his entire software factory as his weapon!!

My suggestion would be that the IGKT “arrange” (assign, appoint, berate, cajole, dole out, whatever) a “Working Group” of 5 or 10 people to communicate with the W3C and learn as much as possible about the strategy and tactics they used to achieve their mission, then bring that knowledge back to the IGKT at large in the form of a collaborative report. The Working Group could pass copies of their report amongst themselves until they all agreed that it said what it needed to say, then release it to the general population.

Once the entire Guild has had a chance to review the report (of the methods used by the World Wide Web Consortium to achieve their mission objectives), general discussion (“rabble”) could last for some time to weed out the “do-able” items from the “no way” bits. (Example: a “database” of knots, comparable in scope and purpose to the database of HTML commands, should be maintained by the Guild, but (other than making it freely available for communication) the method of communication need not be addressed.) This forum should be prepared to host that discussion, and everyone even interested should be prepared to step in and do the “do-able” items as they turn up.

This adapted information (aka “knowledge”) could then serve as a framework for the IGKT to use … well, assuming a lot about ambitions and all that … you know the rest.

There are other models than this. The method of acquiring knowledge could work for all, especially with several “Working Groups” working simultaneously …

Just a thought.

Jimbo
(PS: “dilemma” is technically a problem having two and only two (equally good-or-bad - mutually exclusive) solutions. From “di”, meaning two and “lemma” meaning “horn” (either way, you’re “stuck” :smiley: ). You have a quandary, a predicament, a plight, a jam, a fix, a pickle. ;D You also have a knack for starting and maintaining a really nice thread!!)

75

Hi Derek,

It is amazing what can happen when you read between the lines, isn’t it? You asked:

Finally -- Lindsey. You claim that you want the IGKT to 'Go Forward' to 'Meet its Mission Statement'. But I must ask - Is your agenda something totally different? Your request was not the sort of thing I would expect to hear from someone truely intent on promoting the IGKT. You cannot promote from inside a locked room with closed curtains. Your comment is more in line with the actions of a person intent upon gaining control. I do so hope that I am wrong !!

You are wrong. I wish no control, nor indeed did I advocate any, and I did not request control - I wrote, simply:

Could that area also be made members-only access?

I wrote that request to know whether it was possible, not whether it should be practiced! I know, usually when someone asks if something can be done, the assumption is made that they also want it done. Remember, when I assume, I make an ASS out of U and ME. Read what is written not what is read, and particularly not what is read into what is written!

You might BETTER and more usefully have asked “Why do you want to know”? which would be much more reasonable and more in line with what I would have expected from you (don’t ask). But it does not appear that you are seeking reasonableness - Derek says that it should be so and it must therefore be so? Are you somehow concerned with being shut out? Has your diatribe added to the establishment or fulfillment of the Mission Statement? :o It would make me mad as heck to have someone assuming rather than trying to find out what is going on - why did you not ask >:(? maybe you did and I missed it? See - I am asking…

Here is what you told Willeke to do…

then either don't read them or quit administration

Here is what you told Webmistress …

And as for turning away someone who has spent considerable time and effort in creating a visual aid which very effectively opens the mind to the mechanics within a knot - you do the IGKT and its Mission a dire dis-service

Willeke’s point was towards reasonableness and Webmistress’s was towards compliance with the law. I recognize that we should always question authority, but, please, let’s do so in a true sense of trying to find out something that can be improved, rather than jumping to conclusions. Nobody is trying to shut you up - just asking for some cooperation…

You asked what my agenda is - I simply want to know what the Mission of the Guild is and how we fulfill it. Nothing more - thanks for asking. Once I know what the Mission is and how we are going about fulfilling that Mission, I will have some better idea of where I fit in. Does that help you? Are you prepared to meet that? ???

Lindsey

76

Touche Lindsey, now to use your own words, please read what I wrote.

snip -- And finally and almost unbelievably, the person who started the thread with a plea for the IGKT to look to practice its Mission statements is, [b]if I understand his last post correctly[/b], requesting that the [i]" area also be made members-only access?"[/i] -- snip --[b]I do so hope that I am wrong !![/b]

Thank you for confirming that my reading of that request was wrong. So now following your advice I will ask.

“Why do you want to know if the site can be locked by password?”

77

There can be, in the future, a kind of information or discussion we do not want to share with the whole world.

An example can be a password for a wiki, so we can have many aproved members working together but at the same time keep the public from missusing the site.
Having had to dump the same bit of spam from a forum 5 days running I am getting aware that spammers will kill a lot of nice sites.

Willeke

78
There can be, in the future, a kind of information or discussion we do not want to share with the whole world.

An example can be a password for a wiki, so we can have many aproved members working together but at the same time keep the public from missusing the site.
Having had to dump the same bit of spam from a forum 5 days running I am getting aware that spammers will kill a lot of nice site.


Now there you have the crux Willeke. Security against spam and mischiefe. However, even one of the biggest Wikis on the web - Wikipedia, functions with an open book approach. Every contributor registers and signs on so they can be kicked off if they misbehave, but appart from that, it is an open book - they desperately need contributors - Wikipedia is only the success it is because of the millions of hours its contributors have spent creating its content. None of that would have happened if they had got all precious and protective at the begining.

Hey, even ‘I’ am allowed to contribute !!

A Wiki is a bit of anarchy. It is not perfect and every bit of content is not ‘right’ all of the time, but none of that matters in the long run. It is a big leap from a ‘formal’ website where every word is accounted for and crosschecked. But where the job is big and you need the help of a lot of people, then the Wiki has proven itself to be a very powerful tool of enablement. Wikipedia is just one example of proof.

Quite simply, over security can kill more than it can cure, it needs implementing with caution and with consideration for the potential implications.

79

People! People!! SETTLE!!!

DerekSmith, I can tell from the way you ‘think’, you’re an American. To you, “anarchy” (the social state of living without the rulership of a king or queen) is as natural as “citizenship”, because that’s the way we do it “over here”.

We all need to remember this is supposed to be “International”.

The thing a lot of Americans don’t seem to “get” is that Europeans don’t like freedom!! Believe it or not, many of them actually fear the thought of independent individual autonomy!! “The blessings of Liberty” is as foreign a concept to them as “The bounds of Society” is to us. European Socialist ruling class [ string of expletives deleted ] have worked long and hard to indoctrinate their “subjects” into servile submission to alleged “authority”; and they’re good at their jobs. Many of them still believe some great invisible white guy came down to Earth & impregnated their great-great-…-great grandmother, just so they could be “the boss”.

To Americans, this just seems absurd. Actually, to an ever-increasing number of European “commoners”, the absurdity of a hierarchical, class-oriented society and artificially proscribed behavior is becoming more and more obvious. So there’s some hope for “day after tomorrow”…

But for today, we free Citizens will just have to be patient with our European brothers & sisters until they can catch up with us. They seem to be making progress throwing off their shackles, so let them. We owe them that, because they are our brothers and sisters. Stone walled castles and secret passwords - the whole Spy vs. Spy mentality - are just quaint, if you choose to see it that way; and if you don’t already have a throw-away E-mail address for receiving “countersign” passwords, you should go set one up now. Perhaps some may forget where we are… No one with any sense exposes personal information on the Internet anyway, so playing their “Star Chamber” game couldn’t possibly hurt as bad as it did in Milton’s time!

Likewise, our European brothers & sisters are going to have to realize that we “ugly Americans” just don’t “get it”, when you obsess over authority figures, “hierarchical collective command structures”, secret meetings, codes, passwords, rulership, censorship, oppression… Freedom-loving Americans don’t tolerate any of that. We aim at the officers, on purpose, remember? That’s why we’re here and not over there with you. Yes, it’s true we’re currently infected (as a society) with a bad case of Eurotrash in our prima-facie “ruling classes” – the more European we get, the more our system breaks down. But since we argue amongst ourselves so much, it takes us a long time. We like that, and we do improve, just not quickly – we have a proven process in place & we’re effecting repairs!

On a more personal note: We all need to remember that each and every individual here has to be here! ??? Not because anyone “over” us “made” us come, but because each and every one of us, newbie and old, is driven by the exact same mysterious electric passion you feel when you take up a piece of cordage & put a clever kink in it.

It would help us all to learn to appreciate and embrace (or at least ignore) our personality and word-choice differences & stick to our knotting.

Wiki’s come & wiki’s go; and the same fate may await the IGKT.

Meanwhile,
all we,
here,
have …
is us,
here.

What are we going to do about that?

Hmmm?

80

Hi Jimbo :wink:
You are funny, but you also speak the truth, even if you have a long way to do it.

But when you say
“On a more personal note: We all need to remember that each and every individual here has to be here! Not because anyone “over” us “made” us come, but because each and every one of us, newbie and old, is driven by the exact same mysterious electric passion you feel when you take up a piece of cordage & put a clever kink in it.”

Why does anyone “have” to be here when you have the freedom to be “there” some place where there is no arguing, it looks to me as if you as individuals are doing the mission allready that the IGKT is not appeering to do.
I do not know if I have write properly what I mean here.
sorry if it is wrong.

Thanx
fabounaman