When my father taught me how to make a double half-hitch, he had me switch the handedness of the two hitches. Eventually I noticed that topographically this was identical to a square knot: you can manipulate one into the other. The double half-hitches held well, and of course so do square knots.
When my son was shown the double half-hitch in Cub Scouts this year, it was shown with the hitches having the same handedness. Since then I’ve been looking and so far every other knot book I’ve seen shows it that way as well. Topographically this is identical to what we always called a granny knot. I don’t have any experience with this type of double half-hitch, but I figure that it works well because otherwise it wouldn’t be the standard.
I know that granny knots are unreliable. So why does the topographically identical half-hitch work, or (to put it another way) what is it about the single-handed half-hitch that recommends it over the double-handed version?
roo, thanks for the link. I find it interesting that Roper doesn’t have much regard for reversed half hitches. I use them a lot, and it seems to me that they are less prone to loosening than half hitches.
On half hitches, I don’t get his remark about “It should be constant under load. (Not under constant load).” Does he mean that the standing end should not be under a constant load?
You may not have noticed but the writer of this knot page is Dutch.
For me, also Dutch, ‘constant under load’ and ‘under constant load’ are the same.
I asume for him too, so maybe you see a difference that he did not intent.
I think you may find that the “standard”, same handedness, is somewhat less likely to jam beyond hope when wet and frozen. The way you make them the hitches seem to snuggle together, often a good thing when you don’t want them to come asunder.. but more prone to jam. ABOK calls the oposite handed formation “Reversed Half Hitches” but I can’t see anything about a CWA preference.
One other thought, which I’ve been more aware of as my eyes get worse; If you tie off and I come along later to cast off the hitches it helps if we all do it the same way. This must have been very evident when sailing around the Horn on frozen night but still comes into action when one person starts any job and another comes to undo it later. A good example came to me at the knot show last Sarurday. A person asked me how to finish off a hand coil for running rigging. So I showed what I would do. She said that was so much quicker and so much more secure and so much more easily cast off than what her sailing partner had taught her. : OOPs!! :-[ I then felt it necessary to explain that her partner has the above stated “dark of night” and “working under stress” reasons for insisting on both parties coiling off in the same way. I said that, for the good of the boat, and since his method is sound and of long accepted practice, that she conform to the Skipper’s wishes. ;D
I’ll not open a new can of worms to compare the methods on this thread, as both are good and of long standing.
But as to the two half hitches and the reversed half hitches… I’ll stick with the “standard” but will enjoy hearing more. If you really want it to jam play with the buntlne hitch! Just my opinion, can’t prove it.
On half hitches, I don't get his remark about "It should be constant under load. (Not under constant load)." Does he mean that the standing end should not be under a constant load?
OTOH - both have distinct meanings in English - the first “it should be constant under load” means that the knot should remain the same i.e. not slip or deform, hence remain constant, whenever it is under load - presumably of any kind, but more typically under a steady load unless otherwise specified. The seconnd “it should be under constant load” (italics added) means that it should remain loaded at all times or it will collapse, as is the case with the sheepshank that is untoggled or otherwise unrestrained. Does that help, chilehed and Willeke? ;D
Most commonly I use the hitches when tying a heavy item down to a moving vehicle and it’s vital that there be no slippage; but I want it to be not overly difficult to untie. I usually don’t deal with the knot in wet, frozen weather, but if I do I’ll now remember to not reverse. And I’ll certainly remember the buntline now that I know of it.
sqaurerigger and Willeke, thanks for the input. I usually figure that if a knot is sensitive to slippage due to load variations then one needs to keep the load constant. And yet it seemed to me that Roper is contradicting himself…no matter, you’ve both cleared it up.
Thanks again. I’ve been asking this question for a while and no one could explain it. This is a good forum.
Hi Tom,
Look at the 1,000 variations of the “Truckers Hitch”: which puts a loop in mid line (many different loops proposed) and then through the hardware on the truck (hook or ring) and then back through the loop formed in step one. Your haul down on the line now is 2x minus friction. Finish off with half hitches or slipped half hitches or reversed half hitches.. but the somewhat reduced 2x is the heart of it. If you want to open a can of worms ask what a “truckers hitch” is. I gather you were not finishing off a truckers hitch with your two half hitches or half hitchs reversed so you can have some fun with the multiplied force provided by the truckers hitch and the many variations of it.
Security and strength - the bane of the life of the slippery line and the trucker’s hitch! If you are using a line with lots of friction to its surface, it seems that it will be secure, although your line may not be strong enough to hold the load - if you are using a line with a slippery surface it may have strength but no friction and therefore need to be amended to take care of that problem - what to do ??? Try when using a slippery line (such as trucker’s rope or polypropylene) to apply jamming hitches as part of your trucker’s hitch, and add a toggle of wood (temporary for the duration of the load-carry) to the initial loop. Try also to use a double trucker’s hitch (one after the other) to get a near 4:1 purchase, assuming your line is strong enough in tension to withstand the load you are applying. If your line is weaker (small-size sisal or manila, for instance) then multiple wraps prior to application of the tightening will overcome that. OTOH - you may just want to opt for the really simple solution of putting together a net over the whole thing ;D?
A Trucker’s Hitch as far as i’ve seen and i think is de-scribed here has 3x potential on 1 end and 2x potential on the other end. Usually the 3x(-friction) is placed ont he load/moving end; and the 2x(-friction) is placed on the anchor/stationery end. Count the initial leg of pull on Load as it traces down to Butterfly/ or other midline loop, then lace around anchor ring to reverse direction and back up to reeve thru butterfly and reverse direction again. This gives the initial pull that Butterfly is made in, then 2 more legs of pull thru Butterfly; for 3x pull. The half hitches following are to secure after tightening the rig.
Also, if you pull after the anchor ring, and on bitters at once; as equal and opposites of each other; you can get 4x the pull of 1 hand(less friction). The loss at friction points of the bends can vary by materials and force etc. But, as the friction grows to reduce power from this inline pull strategy; it also increases the ease of which to tighten perpendicularily (“sweating the line” a la Brion Toss) within the jig and trap the purchase from this (or impact) behind the friction that otherwise lessens power potential! Also, once the jig(i look at Trucker’s Hitch as more of a jig/ rig to increase force than a knot/hitch) is tightened and locked with the 2 half hitches; we can take the Bitters/tail after the 2 halfs and pull / lock down it perpendicularily to the Trucker’s Hitch to leverage even more tension on the load(with some change in direction). Because rope is flexible; we don’t think of leveraing perpendicualr force on it for more power like we do with a wrench, lever etc. But, once the line is carrying tension; it then becomes a stiff device, that resists bending; and therefore can then be leveraged by perpendicular force. So, if really tightening, i’ll use a Trucker’s Hitch in Stage1 to tighten line for maximum stiffness/ resistance to bending; lock it off; then bend the now stiffened line for the real target tightening power stage!
For imagery i think 2 half hitches is fine description of Clove. But, mechanically; i think that it is acutally a Crossed Turn (whereby the inititating Standing Part pull is under the Bitters) then followed by a Half/Hitch (whereby now the inititating Standing Part is over the Bitters). The Crossed Turn has the lesser/Bitters force on top of the greater/ Standing Part to allow slip. The Hitch type, places the greater force of the Standing Part trapping down onto the Bitters to secure; less likely to slip. Part of the reason a Clove walks, is the slip is in the beginning; we make it a Constrictor by making sure the inititating Standing Part pull at full force seats/ traps down onto the Bitters to correct this ‘fault’.
A SheetBend to slef to form eye is Bowline, Clove to self to form eye is Buntline, Anchor to self to form eye is Double Noose, Cow to self to form eye is Lobster Buoy etc. But each must be made right for maximum security, by studying the correct finishing placemeant of the Bitters in each. Lest the Buntline just be a turn and 2 half hitches; which is not as secure as trapping the Bitters properly/ more securely in the Buntline formation. Generally think of the Standing Part as the inititating force; all else as responding forces. The Bitters as the point of most reduced forces; after most friction point reductions from initial force of Standing Part. So seek to trap the easiest to hold Bitters; under the maximum holding force of the initiating Standing Part. This is the ‘correction’ that Constrictor gives Clove; IMLHO.
Wow! That’s all too much for me to absorb on a Sunday evening, I’lll have to come back later. But yes, I’ve been using the trucker’s hitch. And the loads aren’t heavy by most standards, but still enough to cause a serious hazard it they fall off.
If there is any confusion of readers, he is referring to tying what Ashley calls
“Reversed hitches” vs. more common 'Two half hitches". One might also
say a noose made with a Cow hitch vs. a Clove hitch.
There will be some disagreement that the square knot holds well; it can jam,
which is very or maybe TOO well; it can also shift in position of parts and not
be secure.
Tying a clove hitch (two half hitches) is more natural, as one makes the same
maneuvre in repetition (and might go a third, to be secure).
Some methods of making a hitch involve a tying like that of one’s shoes, and
there it can be various results, where even a “hitch” occurs in the loaded part
instead of the end, when the tension is applied; usually such cases have more
than two such hitches.
And what you mean to say is that some of those knots are topologically the
same; in any sense topographical, they are quite distinct!
OOPs!! :-[ I then felt it necessary to explain that her partner has the above stated “dark of night” and “working under stress” reasons for insisting on both parties coiling off in the same way. I said that, for the good of the boat, and since his method is sound and of long accepted practice, that she conform to the Skipper’s wishes. ;D