[tr]
[td]knot size[/td]
[td]bulkier than ABoK#684, not bulkier than ABoK#693 [3][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]outcoming strands[/td]
[td]closely together [4][/td]
[/tr]
[1] for esthetic reasons
[2] even without a whipping and with washing in a machine
[3] it allows to join another rope fast and easily
[4] all strands should form kind of a brush
The traditional terminal knot on ropes for shibari is an overhand knot.
An alternative terminal knot which one could see often is ABoK#684 (two wall knots).
Disadvantages of ABoK#684:
It’s volume is not large enough. It works to join another rope, but it would be nicer to have a little more volume. Not much more. Just a little.
The stability during days or weeks of usage or after washing the rope is not the best.
Which three-strand terminal knot, please, do you recommend (and why)?
For a stopper/terminal knot the best that comes to my mind is the Ashley’s Stopper Knot or Oysterman’s Stopper or ABOK #526.
It is bulky enough for most any task of stoppering and so very easy to tie. Dress it tightly and I surmise it will pass your tests.
If it needed to be made “permanent” I would think you could pass a thread through it.
Well, I’m know what you’re looking for because I have similar interests. The advantage is that they both look nice, they aren’t bulky, and they prevent unravelling.
SS, just so that you know, ibu’s looking more for a knot to finish the ends, not an actual stopper knot. Hence his use of “terminal”. With Shbari, you want a knot at the ends of the rope to prevent unravelling more than to prevent it from sliding through an opening.
I am curious why whipping the ends its not an option? Are you looking to have some fraying/unravelling at the ends for a tasselled look?
The Footrope knot seems best of class to me now that I know that it is not a stopper knot that is needed. The strands exit the knot in a bundle that could be left to frizz.
Searching for the above mentioned “thistle knot” in Google images will take you to a few sites that deal with this subject and I’ll just refrain from posting direct links.
I think this will be better to serve the forum in the Decorative section.
I still do not know, which knot do you mean with “Man rope knot”. There are several. The #847 is (a lot to) bulky.
The #683 is nice, yes.
But it seems it is quite difficult to form it nicely.
And to be honest, I prefer the appearance of the #693 (Diamond Knot) - which is difficult to form as well.
I mentioned the “thistle knot” with the hope, there will be some comments on it.
I still do not know how it is to bind. But I suppose it is a combination of one crown and one following wall.
That combination looks as nice as the #693, is easier to bind and the outcoming strands are more closely together.
In shibari the end knots have two functions: Prevention of unravelling and stopping a joined rope.
(When I find a picture of this type of join, I will post it.)
Mainly it is my personal esthetic decision.
But it seems that - as well - in traditionel shibari they will never use whippings.
And yes, I like the tasselled look of the strands (2cm) behind a terminal knot.
Looking into the “thistle knot” further it seems that it is a Footrope knot after all.
Here is a link to a site that has a good graphic of the tying of it. http://www.ropeworks.biz/archive/footrope.html
Basically a crown knot with a wall knot under it around the rope and then tuck the ends through the center of the crown knot and dress tightly.
Thanks a lot.
That’s exactly what I supposed, the knot is tied - and what I tried here.
It is equivalent to ABoK#696. In the Ashley the way to bind it is different to the way which is shown on the website “ropeworks.biz”. But the result is the same.
What do you think about the durability of this knot - compared to other terminal knots of equal bulkiness?
Sorry about that. I’m curious though, what style are you practicing? Typically when I’ve seen reference to “shibari” in reference to eastern styles, it tends towars fewer “knots” in the sense of things like overhand and square knots and more reliant on what would be more of a friction wrap.
I’m a beginner. At three different places I learned the same from three different longtime practioners of shibari kinbaku (japanese bondage):
The knots at the end are neccessary to join the next rope. Then their function is a stopper knot.
I’m sorry I could not find a photo of that very simple join. If I will find one, I will post a link.
Ah. Okay. Never mind. I totoally understand why you need a stopper knot before. As I seem to recall, typically when adding the second piece of rope, you use a cow hitch/lark’s head knot. Everything makes sense know. I beleive SS393 indicated the “thistle knot” you found was actually a manrope knot. That should do you well, or a three strand matthew walker knot would be another handsome way to finish the ends. I’m considering it.
Thanks, yes the “lark’s head” ABoK#5 could be used to explain the way of adding the second rope to the first.
The second rope is “like the stick”.
To be honest:
The way to add the rope results in an ugly and bulky “something”.
Sure, it’s fast and simple.
I don’t know if there are other - and better - ways to add a rope - when you use the technique of a “double applied rope” like it is typical for shibari.
Depends on how far from “traditional” you’re willing to stray.
The nice and practical part about the lark’s head/cow hitch is that it doesn’t eat up much rope.
If you’re more concerned with aesthetics than tradition, then I would suggest take a look at a number of different bends and splicing techniques. I know that in Des Pawson’s book, he shows how to make a perpendicular splice amongst other kinds of splicing.
Bends are specifically designed for joining two different lengths of rope, so you could always look at thouse to see if there’s one more aesthetically pleasing.
Well I tried doing a search for splices and perpendicular splices and couldn’t find a good image. I’ll have to see if I can find a scan or something. Or see if you can find a copy of Des Pawson’s Guide to Knots. the basics of it is that the three strands are spliced though the other rope at a right angle. In my vision, all you’d have to do is splice a small length through, then tie it off with a simple Matthew Walker kot, or possibly a more simple stop knot, such as a wall and crown combo. This would use up very little rope, perhaps close to the amount used by the larks head. And it shows a wider degree of rope skills.
However, considering that your using the rope doubled over (not sure how I forgot that part) I’d suggest a bend instead of a splice.
As for which kind of bend, I’d have to look for a bit. One suggestion would be to use a Double Coin knot (Josophine) as a bend. Make the double coin knot in the second rope, slip the first rope through the loops of the double coin knot and then tighten the double coin knot. A stopper knot at the end of the first rope should prevent slipping through the double coin knot on the second. Should use only slightly more rope than the lark’s head, but would look nicer. And due to the nature of the loops in the double coin, you can use it to continue length in vitrually any direction compared to the first rope.
