You have to figure out how to turn the loop at the upper side of the picture, to the loop at the lower side, and vice versa, without using the tails ( that is, you have to manipulate the loop in-the-bight ), and without twisting the eye of the loop and/or the two overhand knots in any way.
The bad news is that you have to “see” how to do this in the next three and a half seconds.
If you will not manage to do this… well, then you will be in not-so-clever but good company ! I needed three and a half years to do it - 31 million 536 thousand times more… ( However, I had also to satisfy some personal needs in the same time - dealing with roo included ! )
Enjoy !
Hint : You have to “halter” the helical coils - but if you do not know what does this !@#$%^&*()_+ mean, there are yet more bad news for you, I am afraid : you have to read maaany lines I had filled in my posts, while I was practicing “keystroking” !
Of course, since the two knots are TIB ( you may have not noticed that till now, but you can notice it in a flash, if you “see” that the two overhand knots are, in fact, slipped , so, starting from the “lower” one, you can untangle the whole eyeknot ), they can be un-knotted and knotted again, without using the ends - but in this puzzle it is NOT permitted to un-knot those ( slipped ) overhand knots !
Oddly enough, I was playing with a piece of rope yesterday tying tiable in the bight (TIB) knots and ended up with the knot you show at the bottom. I could see it was an adjustable loop with a knotting structure that is the same/very similar to a Double Fisherman’s Bend.
What is it called please xarax? Is it useful? I know it isn’t Post Eye Tiable (PET).
I think I can see how to do your challenge, though I haven’t confirmed that yet. I’m still trying to remember how I tied the bottom knot in TIB form first
Yes, the latter of what you say is what I meant. The two single knots can be slid together forming a Double Fisherman’s knot.
It is just a silly knotted structure I had thought of, just to illustrate my point, in the simplest possible way, of how you can increase or decrease the turns of the helical coil in a [i]Helical loop[/i] (1)(2).
It is totally useless, I guess - but who knows ? Perhaps somebody will find a use for it in the future…
It is PET -1 - if you consider the straight line as the ( most simple possible ) continuation of the Standing End !
The way I untied it yesterday I ended up with an overhand knot in my hand, then I could not quite remember how I tied it the bight. Maybe I wasn’t concentrating when I untied it somehow. Still trying to remember how I tied it to check again
LOL… I just realised the knot I tied yesterday is different to yours :
Your loop is either two overhand knots tied apart in the standing part and then simply feed the tail back through them after forming an eye. Or, make an eye and tie two overhand knots on the standing part. The loop I’m trying to tie TIB really is like a Fisherman’s Bend, you can slide the two overhand knots together and tighten the nub.
I should have enlarged your picture first, I was thinking of another knot
I don’t know, I do not have access to Ashley’s book. The loop knot I’m referring to is just a like a Fisherman’s Bend except the standing part of one rope and the tail of the other rope form the eye.
You can tie it by first doing an overhand knot in the SPart, form an eye, and then feed the Tail through this overhand knot tie and tie another overhand knot around the Spart using the Tail. Hope that makes sense.
It was interesting to me because I stumbled on it via a TIB method and found that you can tighten the nub by pulling on the Spart together with one leg of the Eye and loosen it by tugging on the tail and the other Eye leg. It’s possibly quite useless, but maybe not. And this knot isn’t Post Eye Tiable, the overhand knots, one in the Spart, and one formed from the Tail take care of that.
If it is at all useful it probably is an ABoK, don’t know which one though
I don’t mean to sound well, anyway, I speant 3.5 minutes trying to figure out what the point of this seemingly obvious question was and then tying it to make sure that I wasn’t confusing myself about not being confused. Maybe I’m still confused and just don’t know it?
xarax, I have not read that thread, so I should. Usually when someone shows a tricky looking thing like this, if you think the answer is obvious, it’s probably not, and that’s what I meant by “the point”.. ie, what was the trick in the trick question, not why does it matter.
No, these knots cannot slide --they are in the same strand,
fixed in separation. (And if they did slide into oppostion,
they’d then constitute a i fisherman’s knot[/i], not double.)
Blah… I just spent and hour taking a picture, resizing it to 98kB writing a few paragraphs and now I get…
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Wait for the picture, however my knot looked a lot like xarax’s and fooled me originally, except it did slide to tighten and release.
In hindsight it’s really only a slip knot with an extra overhand knot on the standing part (SPart). It does look like Double/Single Fisherman’s Bend though, and I thought it was pretty cool when it popped into my hands pretty much like this from a tied in the bight method (TIB).
Useful? Maybe it is somehow. You can tighten it by holding the Spart and one Eye leg and sliding the overhand knots together. Loosening starts with grabbing the other Eye leg and the Tail and pulling apart. It isn’t Post Eye Tiable (PET), however it might have some specialist use that doesn’t need that quality I suppose.
Thanks xarax. The knot I showed just happened from playing around with a piece of rope, I wasn’t trying it for it It think I can work out a TIB method to do the knot your suggested way, though the knot is nothing special anyway it seems.
