Top ten most useful knots.

I was just about to post this point – in questioning how some of these
“most useful” knots ever actually are used. Mundane things such as
tying ones shoes or this bag-closing operation tend to be “most…”
in frequency but find no respect in the lists of “useful” knots.
(Interesting question is how to classify this bag-closing knot:
gripping the bag in hand makes it a stopper, but when the
bag’s lying with e.g. apples wanting to roll in many directions,
it’s more of a joining knot --but joining what, not “ends”?!)

  • Bowstring Loop (a.k.a. Honda Knot)

NB, a bowlinesque “around the tree and back into the hole”
finish makes for a nice knot.

(-;

Why the heck have I not come across the Evenk before?
Played around with it at the weekend> love it!
This goes on my list and may well be replacing the slipped buntline for me as it is tied in a jiffy and seems to be secure.
(after my first, tentative evaluation with different types of rope)

I agree. And I found it is good in combination with the Siberian for putting up a tarp or hammock.

Two of my favs too. I use the Zeppelin (Loop and Bend) most of the time and revert to the bowline(s) if it needs to go fast. I did not put it in my list, because I thought it is, compared to the bowline, a bit tricky to tie and remember for a person who does not play around with rope as much. But I am starting to think that it might be worth the effort even for a beginner. Once you tied it a few times, it sticks and it has the merrits of security (without any extra tucks etc.) and easy adjustability. And it does not jam.

Anyway.
I learned the Siberian/Evenk knot.
Thanks for sharing the list

Regarding the Zeppelin Loop and tying methods there is a new thread
http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=1872.0
which presents options for tying it, which might help to get the Zeppelin Loop into the top ten list of knots.

Have a look at my video on youtube. I personally find this way of tying it very easy and memorable:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9HRegcP9NU

Regarding the quick/rapid way of tying the water bowline and double (knotted) bowline,
I posted these you tube videos to demonstrate:

water bowline: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTyJgvmuwSo
double bowline: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QTkVWLX4sE

And finally the butterfly loop and bend:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwBNtlHFNKw

@Transminator,

Cool, I’ll check your videos!

A couple days ago I added a rapid bowline pictorial to my page of ways of tying a bowline.

Love it!

I don’t find the clove hitch to be all that useful compared to other similar hitches.

It is useful as the basis for other knots that evolve out of the clove or use it as part of themselves
Examples:

  1. The constrictor knot is just a clove hitch with an extra tuck (followed by the double constrictor, the boa knot etc.)
  2. The Buntline Hitch is a clove hitch around the standing part
  3. The locking turns in the water bowline are a clove hitch.
    etc.

Its a bit like saying: the overhand knot is not all that useful.
For most cases it isn’t, but so many knots can be tied or are tied starting with an overhand knot
(the zeppelin loop e.g.)

Those simple knots (overhand knot, clove hitch etc.) are the 101 of knotting and therefore have their place
One starts from the simple forms and progresses to the more complex.

One of the problems with starting with a clove hitch, is that it’s very easy to get the wrong version of the water bowline.

I might watch the other videos later. So sloooow.

I prefer the twist method to the so-called hybrid method for the loop. The hybrid method is not very memorable, and if you reach around the wrong rope (an easy error) you get a knot that looks like butterfly loop but is very much inferior to a butterfly loop :o. This would be a less serious issue if the mistake weren’t so similar in appearance to the butterfly loop, so it could be corrected before being accidentally used.

As far as the bend, I’ve always found the structure elementary enough not to need a developed method. It could be just me.

I agree with you there. However, that concept is too abstract for a beginner who just wants your top ten best knots to go do stuff right now. This is the “Practical Knots” forum, not the “Theory of Knots” forum. In theory, you could put Overhand in your top ten, when you’re really thinking Zeppelin Bend, right?

How does the average dude get to the Zeppelin Bend if you give him an overhand only? He doesn’t.

How does the average dude get to the Slipped Buntline if you give him a Clove Hitch only? He doesn’t.

This post is an extension to one of Transminator’s that gives examples of knots that contain the Clove Hitch.

Examples (continued):

  1. The Fixed-Gripper Knot of the newly bestowed Fixed-Gripper Constructs

JCS

mmh, is there another one?
or do you mean the double bowline?

I myself find the methods I presented for tying the water and the double bowline less error prone though, but that could be me.
I always had trouble with the other methods, which I found less memorable and slow to tie.
But all my post are to be understood as just offers. Some people might find them useful, others don’t.

Are you working with a dial up line?
Broadband for internet is just a delight. I don’t want to be without it anymore.

I hear what you are saying.
I personally never had any problem of getting either the water bowline, double bowline or the butterfly knot wrong using the presented methods.
I just wanted to show how I tie them and some people out there might find them useful. Not everybody of course.
All my posts are considered to be offers only. I would not claim that these are the best methods.
They are merely the ones I chose for myself for various reasons.

I had occasion to need to tie a knot recently, and wanted to find the “right” one. I found igkt, and a few days later I was sitting around tying and retying as many different knots as I could. I’d like to offer some thoughts from the viewpoint of someone new to knots. Apologies if this all seems old hat to the more experienced members. This is what I’ve determined after a short period of trying to sort out the menagery. I have not learned all the knots out there yet, just the most common ones that get a lot of discussion.

My first impression is that the advantage to many of the “classic” knots is that they are easy to remember and quick to tie, but that many of them are subsumed in their primary role by other, better knots. They are important to learn because they are often reused in other knots.

Bends:
Reef “bend” is universally maligned.
Sheet bend is said to be insecure, unless tied as the double sheet bend.
The interlocked overhand knots class of bends (Zeppelin, Hunter’s, Ashley’s, Alpine Butterfly) are well thought of, with most people preferring Zeppelin or Alpine Butterfly, the other two being more prone to jams. The Alpine Butterfly Bend has the advantage of having an easy “round the hand” method of forming it, while Zeppelin may be marginally more secure or harder to jam.
Carrick’s bend is well thought of and compact, but may be easier to tie incorrectly and end up with something that is not a Carrick’s bend, and cannot be easily determined to be incorrect by inspection. The Alpine Butterfly and Zeppelin bends both have distinct “looks” so you can tell if you did something wrong.

Hitches:
All the “classic” hitches (two half hitches, clove hitch, etc.) seem problematic as standalone hitches, with the possible exception of the slipped buntline when a compact hitch is desired.
The notableknotindex website advocates the Sailor’s Hitch, which seems ideal for hitching to a large diameter round object, like a pole or a rope.
The Rolling, or Magnus, Hitch is quick and easy for lateral pulling, but comes in three variations. The Gripping Sailor’s Hitch seems better in every other way.
The Taut-Line Hitch (also in three variations, as it uses the Rolling Hitch) is an easy adjustable loop hitch, but subsumed by the Adjustable Grip Hitch.
The Trucker’s “Hitch” seems useful, but seems more of a technique than an actual knot; the loop(s) used can be formed in any number of ways.

Loops in the Bight:
The Alpine Butterfly Loop is easy to tie and very popular. Figure eight in the bight is often used by climbers apparently, but it seems to me it takes up more rope and is more prone to jamming. I have seen an argument by cavers against the use of the Alpine Butterfly Loop when tied using the “two twists” method, as incorrectly forming the loops can create the False Butterfly, which is hazardous. The danger of mistying it in a more subtle fashion using the “hybrid” method is discussed immediately above in this thread.

End Loops:
Figure 8 as an end loop is widely used in climbing, easy to form unless you are tying the “rethreaded” version, jam prone.
Alpine Butterfly Loop is liked as an end loop. David Delaney’s web site advocates the Alpine Butterfly Bend Loop as slightly less jammable, which puts the working and standing parts in different parts of the loop than the standard Alpine Butterfly tied as an end loop.
The Zeppelin Loop is similar, perhaps marginally better. Both Alpine Butterfly Loops and the Zeppelin Loop require some practice to be able to tie quickly, but can generally be tied slowly if you forget how by starting with an overhand loop, staring at it, and remembering the structure of the knot.
There is, of course, the Bowline and its variants (Water, Double, etc.). Easy, compact, usually reliable. As an aside, I found that when practicing the “lightning method” of forming the bowline using a collapsing slip knot, you must take care to push the bight through the loop from the standing part, not the working part (or else you get an Eskimo, or Sideways, Bowline), and you must insert the working end through the bight in the proper directly (or else you end up with the Dutch Marine (Cowboy) Bowline). Both of these are described by various sources as being either less or more secure than the standard version. It is harder to get it wrong using the standard rabbit-hole-tree method.

In keeping with the subject of this thread, I’ll count up the most “useful” of the knots above. I count as separate the “same” knot if they are tied using different methods, and technically different knots the same if they are or can be tied using substantially the same method.

  1. Double Sheet Bend (an easy bend)
  2. Carrick’s Bend (near ideal bend)
  3. Slipped Buntline Hitch (an easy hitch)
  4. Zeppelin Bend using “b and q” method (easy to learn, near ideal bend)
  5. Zeppellin Bend and Zeppelin Loop starting with overhand knot method (alternative technique necessary for the loop)
  6. Alpine Butterfly Loop in the Bight, and Bend, tied round the hand (easy to learn, near ideal bight loop and bend)
  7. Alpine Butterfly End Loop, or alternatively the Alpine Butterfly Bend Loop as described by David Delaney, both tied starting with overhand knot (near ideal end loop)
  8. Sailor’s Hitch, and Gripping Sailor’s Hitch (good round pole hitch, near ideal lateral hitch)
  9. Adjustable Grip Hitch (good adjustable hitch)
  10. Figure 8 as stopper, bight loop, end loop, bend (versatile and easy)

For me, all of the above is rather theoretical since the only time I ever tie a knot in something that is not a practice rope is to attach a kite string or hitch my dog to a post. I don’t even tie shoelaces any more. Please let me know what you think.

JSC,

Those are some good thoughts there. I agree with 5 or 6 of your knots.

I’m curious as to why you have the redundancy. For the Butterfly and the Zeppelin, I don’t consider a different tying method to be a different knot. I would list one knot plus all the tying methods in one slot. Also, the Carrick’s Bend is somewhat redundant because you listed 3 other bends that have highly desirable properties. Also, the Carrick’s Bend tends to capsize easily into an undesirable dressing, while the other bends you mentioned do not.

You don’t have a dedicated binding knot (e.g., Square). A think a person’s top ten should be able to satisfy substantially most rope tasks. As a regular guy who doesn’t tie knots for my job, I find myself tying a binding knot more than any other knot. For example, I use a double slipped Square (aka, bow) to tie my shoes.

You don’t have the Bowline Loop in your top ten. For an end loop, the Zeppelin or the Butterfly is your preference I guess. As far as I know, each requires a pre-knot. That drawback can be problematic in many situations. The Bowline and Double Bowline do not require pre-knots.

I like most of your knots for my top 10. However, I don’t have the Carrick’s Bend, the Sailor’s Hitch, the Gripping Sailor’s Hitch or the Figure 8. For the Carrick Bend, there are at least 3 other bends that I prefer (Zeppelin, Butterfly and Double Sheet). Including the Carrick would be a waste of a slot for me. For the Sailor’s Hitch, there are at least 5 other similar hitches that I prefer. For the Gripping Sailor’s Hitch, there are about 5 other similar hitches that I prefer. For the Figure 8 stopper, I find myself tying a Stevedore, an Ashley’s or an Overhand instead. I figure if I’m going to make extra turns past the Overhand, then I might as well go with a knot that doesn’t jam on me (Stevedore).

Those are just my personal preferences. Of course, your mileage may vary.

Hi, knot4u. Thanks for your feedback! I list the “same” knots separately when different forms (loop vs bend) either call for or require a different way of tying the knot. I realize this isn’t technically accurate, but from the point of view of someone learning knots, the overhand knot method of tying the Alpine Butterfly Loop on the end, or the Zeppelin Loop is so different from the usual method of tying the Alpine Butterfly Loop or Zeppelin Bend that it’s nearly like learning two different knots, and you can’t use the latter for the former (although of course you could just learn the first method and use it all the time). On the other hand, tying the Alpine Butterfly Bend around the hand is so similar to the Alpine Butterfly Loop that I would just lump them in together, as far as knot study goes.

I agree it’s redundant. It just seems so good that I threw it in. You say it tends to capsize easily; what do you mean by that? I thought the compact form you get once you’ve created the “flat” figure and put it under load is actually fine, and expected, as in step 8 here: http://www.animatedknots.com/carrick/index.php

True, and in fact, I never or extremely rarely expect to have to tie any of the knots I’ve learned so far. My list is, I guess, a list for some hypothetical version of me who climbs mountains or sails wooden ships, or otherwise works with rope. If it had been a list for my own practical use, it would have been filled with things like the reef knot, the overhand knot, the full and half windsor tie knots, a loose two half hitches for tying up the dog to a post, etc. In terms of practicality, manly me the trucker/sailor/arborist/caver has vastly different requirements than real life me which needs to close off the bread bag. I guess a separate list composed solely of “best of breed knots” for everyday tasks would also be an interesting exercise, as the information is scattered around on various “how to tie your tie” and “improved shoelace knots” sites. I found it interesting that the four-in-the-hand knot for tying your necktie is the same as the buntline hitch, which now makes it easier for me to remember.

What are some situations which prevent the use of a pre-knot? I’m curious.

Also, I’d be interested in hearing which hitches you prefer over Sailor’s and Gripping Sailor’s, so I can learn those too. I included Sailor’s because it is so similar to the Gripping Sailor’s, and I included that one because roo’s site praised its virtues as a lateral pull knot.

Thanks for listing your preferred stoppers, I’ll look into those. As I said, at this point all this is mostly an intellectual exercise, barring an unexpected turn of fate which has me hauling on lines on an 18th century frigate.

JCS, people have their favorites and are reluctant to change, except if they make the change themselves. I’m one of these people, and these are just my highly opinionated thoughts… :slight_smile:

I understand your thought process about these being fantasy man knots, but I still think you should work at least one binding knot in there somewhere! Also, what’s wrong with having the Overhand or Windsor in your top ten? Your reasoning made sense to me, and I can respect your perspective. The main reason I don’t have the Overhand in my top ten is because I put the Half Hitch and the Square on my list, and so that fills my allotted quota for “everyday” knots.

The Sailor’s Hitch is a decent knot, but I just don’t have the love affair that some people have with it. Before the Sailor’s Hitch, I’m more likely to use a Groundline, a Snuggle, a Vibration-proof, a Boom, a Slipped Buntline, a Siberian, a Halter or a Pile.

Before I tie a Gripping Sailor’s Hitch, I’m more likely to tie a Klemheist, a Gripping Half Hitch (new creation), an Icicle Cow (new creation) or others. None of these hitches loosen up when I shake the standing end. See here:
http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=1889.msg13661#msg13661
http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=1889.msg13765#msg13765
The Klemheist may be inconvenient to tie in some situations, but I will make an effort because this knot outperforms most friction hitches in my experience.

Some situations that make a pre-knot inconvenient include the following:
-Hauling or anchoring anything where the rope is already around the object (this happens to me a lot)
-Using one hand (a one-handed Bowline is easy, while a one-handed Zeppelin Loop is not easy, etc.)
-Making a loop where I don’t have a clue where on the rope I want the dressing to be
-An end loop that I want to tie quickly on the fly
-An end loop where the standing end is loaded while tying (e.g., accidentally letting go before tying the Zeppelin Loop could mean a jammed Overhand knot)

Sorry to see that you have misunderstood that great knot so badly. Forgive me for going OT with this one.

A correctly dressed Carrick Bend cannot ever capsize. Its very dressing is capsizing its pattern by putting load on it, whereupon it takes its final form.
You can see how the Carrick Bend is tied simpler than most bends at my webpage: http://web.comhem.se/~u77479609/Carrick%20Bend.html

This is what it looks like when finished, the desired dressing, from which it cannot capsize:

http://web.comhem.se/~u77479609/Carrick%20Bend/carrick_8.gif

Thank you for the info. I will test the Carrick Bend (again) and will do my best to make the Carrick stack up to other bends I prefer. We’ll see.

Just curious, did you make that webpage before studying the Zeppelin Bend? You ignored the Zeppelin Bend but compared the Sheet Bend to the Carrick. All due respect, but I’ll have to say the Zeppelin Bend is the King of Bends. I have tested the Zeppelin Bend in all kinds of cord, from thick rope to 10-lb test monofilament fishing line. I have decided that I will use the Zeppelin Bend to join fishing line, instead of the traditional fishing knots available…no kidding. The Zeppelin Bend just works.

Hello, Inkanyezi. That’s what I thought, regarding the loaded form of the Carrick’s Bend. Your “standing part method” of tying it is awesome, and something I haven’t seen anywhere else, did you come up with it?

No to the question about the Zeppelin, which I did know beforehand. However, I found it too difficult to do with stiff fingers or gloves in darkness, without the aid of vision. Any important knot used in sailing must be easily tied unaided by vision and when fingers are a bit stiff from cold or with gloves on. The Zeppelin can be tied with closed eyes, and with gloves as well, although it’s slower and more difficult, It also needs a bit more dressing than the Carrick Bend. Darkness and stiff fingers makes it really awkward, compared to the “standing part” method of tying the Carrick Bend.

Yes, I came up with the method of tying it myself, with the deliberate intention to find a way of tying that could be done with thumb gloves in complete darkness. The sheet bends can be tied under the same conditions, but the Carrick Bend is swifter and more secure, as well as in my opinion the only one that can also be easily untied with mittens on.

With a soaked knot frozen, the Carrick Bend still can be untied without too much hassle.

So in essence, there are a couple of desirable features added; mainly being able to tie the knot without aid of vision and with numb fingers or gloves on, as well as ease of untying under similar conditions. I regard the knot amply secure in most kinds of cordage, particularly the types of cordage common on board.

Hello Inkanyezi

I have to say I rather like your method of tying the carrick bend.
I always found it a bit awkward to tie (even though I use it regularly as the start of the knife lanyard knot e.g.) as a regular bend.

This places it right up there to accompany the zeppelin and the butterfly on my list of best bends.

Thanks