WANTED: a list of idiomatic terms derived from knots & knotting

General Discussion
1

Greetings, all! This is my first post, although I have been lurking with the NA branch of
IGKT since its inception.

I am making a short documentary entitled “Knot Relevant,” which presumes to address the
remarkable property of our age, that only in the last 100 (50?) years has the skill of knotwork
not been a survival skill. Indeed, I intend to end the movie with a playful assay of how
people tie their shoes – the last vestige of 3000 continuous years of the technology and
development of ropemaking, knots, and knot-tying!

(An, oh yes, I will end the movie but showing the Best Way To Tie One’s Shoes – but let’s
not get caught up in that just yet).

So, I want to begin by including a short but telling treatise of how knotting has at least insinuating
itself into the language by enumerating some common idioms, which will be a surprise to many
people, that are knot-related.

“To the bitter end” and “a good turn” are obvious first thoughts. I have been as yet unsuccessful
in finding someone else’s list, although I cannot imagine I’m the first one to have touch of such
a thing, and unsuccessful recollection only serves to remind me of how few I can immediately
recall.

Can anybody provide for me such examples, or refer me to a list? Thanks in advance!

=Brian

2

Welcome to the forum!!!

I liked these 52 pages of Nautical Terms, many of which are related to knots and knotting.
http://www.elishawebb.com/Nautical%20Terms/Terminology_of_the_Sea.pdf

http://img281.imageshack.us/img281/7520/flag0ii.gif

With a wife and 3 daughters it seems I’m doing a lot of this. LOL

PAY OUT -
To ease out a line, or let it run in a controlled manner.

Tie the knot.
My wife and I tied the knot outside in a state park in Tarpon Springs, FL in 1980.

Hope this helps!

3

Hi Brian,

Perhaps this list compiled by our own Frank Brown will help

http://knotcyphers.pbworks.com/Knotting+Glossary

Derek

4

Hello Brian,

Here’s a couple:

to get hitched = to get married

a Gordian knot = a very difficult problem (also cut the Gordian knot = to solve a problem decisively)

Barry

5

Brian,

Interesting project, good luck.

“to be tied up in Knots” often used to refer to being in stress or nervous.

CL

6

Hi Brian,

“Get Knotted”!!!

Rarely used these days, but the expression means “Go away and stop bothering me” (a very polite translation!)

I went to a Scout camp this weekend and taught the kids how to make a simple decorative key ring. Some of them now know the expression “Get knotted”. I’m not sure I should have taught them it, but at least it’s better than the profanity one or two of the older ones prefer.

An interesting project - good luck, and I look forward to hearing more.

Kind Regards,

Phil

7

Hi Brian,

How about some of the following:

My stomach is in knots = I am nervous
Tie someone in knots = confuse someone
At a rate of (ten) knots = at a speed at which (ten) knots in a log-line have passed in 28 or 30 seconds
Knotted tongues = people who stutter
A knotty problem = something intricate or difficult to solve
Bend one on = take a drink
Go on a bender = take more than one or two drinks
Hitch your wagon to a star = hope for great things
Get spliced = get married
Splice the mainbrace = have a tot of rum after strenuous effort, like hauling the main brace
The wind’s eye = the direction from which the wind blows
Macnamara’s lace = macrame, possibly derogatory
A knot of people = a small group of people
Knot garden = an arranged garden in an intricate pattern
Take a turn = take the strain
Heave-to = slow to a near stop
A bight of land = a bay or other re-entrant piece of the coast or river
Another string to my bow = more personal power or ability (derived from the increased resistance of the bow-string)
I’m at the end of my rope = I have nowhere left to turn, no other choices
Stranded = alone without a friend or companion, like a rope of one strand
Spinning some yarns = telling stories when you have a boring or tedious job to do
Whiplash = the action of one’s head in an accident, like the movement of a whip

There must also be a link somewhere in the expression getting sc**wed or getting la*d - don’t traditional knotters like to get laid?

That’s all I have for now - if I think of more, I’ll let you know. ;D

SR

8

One more:

without a hitch = without a problem

9

G’day Brian.
Royal Australian Navy terms I have heard. Haven’t heard them any where else. (Except bitter end)

Bitter End = The end of a length of rope.

Tiger Tails = The lengths of rope used to lay out anchor cable on a ships deck, the bottom of a Dry Dock or on a Wharf.

Hanging Judas = A loose bit of rope hanging but doesn’t have a purpose.

Hope that helps. Welcome to IGKT

10

I wish we could kill this mistaken meaning: the “bitter” end was named for
the end/part of the rope “ABAFT THE BITTS,” not some ultimate end-point of
that bit of rope. “bitter” from “bitts”, not from some connotation of taste. I think
that this is well enough documented without other than common misunderstanding
and mis-use going against it. At least the involvement of bitts, with some
bit of doubt re the end–absolute, or general “part”.
(The Snyder brothers (reprint of 1970 revision) in [u]Handling Ropes & Lines Afloat
manage to both recognize the original meaning and stamp on it by using b.e. to mean
“the last six inches” of line–which itself begs the question of applicability to lines of
different dimensions (the last six inches of a hawser might be mostly whipped!).)

[I’m less firmly supported re the “end” vs. “part” argument, but I’m clinging
to the importance of “bitts” in the meaning.]

Here’s a just-found further growth of the unwanted meaning, in Massachusetts
marine regulations for groundlines.

(19) Weak Buoy Link means a breakable section or device that will part when subjected to 500 lbs. [[i]oddly, a few lines later there is a 600# specification !? [/i]] or less of pull pressure and after parting, will result in a knot-less end, no thicker than the diameter of the line, the so-called "bitter end" to prevent lodging in whale baleen.

–dl*

11

Looking at these lacings as force bearing machines, i go with the untensioned part, ‘after’ the knot,or exitting the knot. In this imagery i read Standing Part as Standing (Tensioned) Part. The force bearing/tension is very important IMLHO; whereby a Turn crossing itself, can be a Hitch if the greater tension is over the lessor, to such an extent, that there is no tension beyond/ the greater tension over nips/pinches off the tension flow. But, the same lacing pulled backwards (so greater tension is under the lessor) is the sazme form, but not the same empowered machine, jsut becasue of not row the line lays, but where the tensions/powers are at on said lacing, with the lacing/rope; just as a conducting device to these powers.

12

Apologies, all. The below post had been written and (I thought) posted
a few days ago, but it didn’t “take.” I repost it now.

For the contributed phrase lists, thanks to skyout (for “without a hitch” – but of course!),
Sweeney, Capt Larry, Phil_The_Rope, sledge, and (especially) squarerigger. For the
suggestion of links and references, thank you Derek Smith and Dan Lehman. (Yes, I am
aware of the derivation and definition of “bitter end,” but despite being called a IGKT
forum “Newbie,” youch! I figured to get away with a broad, simplistic usage, as per
the intention of the query).

For TreeSpider: a simplified quote from the introduction of the movie: “After 3000
years of knots and ropemaking, nothing remains of the skill beyond its use by riggers,
arborists, and bondage afficianandos.” I have been through your website with a
fine-tooth marlinspike.

Many of your are names are and were familiar to me before even the start of IGKT
forums (forae?).

Yes, I had previously thought to look at sailors’ glossaries, especially historical works,
but few terms have worked their way into the vocabulary. Indeed, I have delved into
Slang dictionaries at scribd.com, but found the going slow for the necessary effort of
perusing each and every one. By practicality, I wanted to concentrate on terms that
have made it into American-English, most likely familiar to the intended audience of my
film, but realise such terms not only come from British (including Australian :slight_smile: origin, but
are themselves the richest sources of those terms today.

The terms that I like most (that is, the most pertainent to 15 seconds of screen
time!) are:

A BIGHT OF LAND: a bay or other re-entrant piece of the coast or river
AT THE END OF MY ROPE: no other choices
BEND ONE ON: take a drink
EVEN KEEL: When a boat is floating on its designed waterline, it is said to be floating on an even keel.
FASHION-PIECES: The aftermost timbers, terminating the breadth and forming the shape of the stern.
GET SPLICED, TIE THE KNOT: get married
GO ON A BENDER: take more than one or two drinks
HEAVE-TO: slow to a near stop
JURY-RIGGED: A temporary mast, rigged at sea, in place of one lost.
MY STOMACH IS IN KNOTS: I am nervous
PAY OUT: To ease out a line, or let it run in a controlled manner.
SCUTTLEBUTT: Formerly, the cask in which fresh water was carried.
SPINNING SOME YARNS: telling stories
STRANDED: alone without a friend or companion, like a rope of one strand
TAKE A TURN: take the strain
TUMBLING HOME: Said of a ship’s sides, when they fall in above the bends. The opposite of wall-sided.
WHIPLASH: The action of one’s head in an accident, like the movement of a whip
WITHOUT A HITCH: without a problem

Thanks! Get knotted! (<= Completely inappropriate, but I just like the sound
of it!)

=Brian

13

Brian,
You did post the above a couple of days ago. Somehow it wound up in the “Google Books” thread. Tony

14

I am not convinced that stranded in contexts not related to rope is etymologically connected to rope at all. In a few other Germanic languages, strand is shore, and “strandad” thus means blown ashore. It might well have gotten into English at the time of the Vikings, as many other nautically influenced terms.