Hello!
Books of knots will be of no use this time.
None of these knots were taken from a book
I ‘derived’ all of them from different sources
that are “google pictures” extracted.
Can you tell:
-
their generic origin.
That is so easy that will not gain you much
‘face’ so the real challenge
is :
-
to give an internet link to a picture
( they were all found on “google pictures” )
for the ones you are able to identify ( THAT is hard!)
Here is a sampling
of some of the templates I made.
Sorry but I find cork boards and drawings the most useful
tools to analyze ‘structure’ not to speak of “fool-proof.
It was fun ( and instructional) to analyze the structure and the geometry
and to ‘tweak’ the structure just enough as to get a ‘true’ knot while retaining
a 'relatively convergent” geometry
That said anyone can disagree with that.
Last thing : I challenge anyone of the “hands only” party to throw
some of the most ‘convoluted’ of these ‘in the hand’!
In the end I will give all the diagrams
with the picture that is its ‘primitive’
and the knot.
(use the ‘name’ of the picture in the slideshow
showing the knots to identify it)
Willeke : to each of the winners ( as many ‘prizes’ as there are knots)
get what my paternal grand-mother called " a little nothing at all
in an absolutely new condition"! :-o) ;D
Bonjour Nautile,
Photos 7095 and 7136 are thump mats, as in Ashley.
This is a link to a photo of a knot very similar to some that you have posted here. (6906, 6950, 7107, 7149) The only difference is that in the center it is over-two, under-two, instead of your example of over-one, under-one. I have sent out a template to tie these knots in the last edition of the IGKT-PAB news letter, Knot News.
http://www.khww.net/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=43&cat=0&pos=2
All of the knots that have the line moving around in the same direction appear to have a base in a Turks Head knot, and should not be difficult to tie in hand. For the convoluted ones like 6932, or 7123 you would almost have to use a flat surface to lay the knot out as you tie it.
Pat
For knots like these I would use a flat surface, and for the hard to make ones cork and pins, but the real mats rather than the line drawings like Ashley uses.
The ones Nautile makes are a little better, because you can see the overs and unders, but I prefer to see the shape of the mat.
This puzzle is a little to much for me now, but if there are no good answers, I might have a go tomorrow.
Willeke
Hi
Thanks for playing.
As I said they do not come from ABOK or any other book, or any other ‘knotting’ site as such!
I did not ‘copy’ any of them on already made knots.
Of course some of them should be in books or in existence but that is not so that they were born.
I do not go much for ornemental knotting and only went
there for the need of analazing structure and geometry.
Question is not
“do you know these knots”
but
"from where are they ‘derived’ ? ( as opposed to copied)
So no correct answer as yet.
Cheers
ADDED
As I am not sure that I am expressing myself in an understandable manner
I think best to show " a free sample" :
Igkt Logo derived into a true knotting.
The source is Igkt logo and this is the sort of “image” that is to be found for each
knots in the quizz.
If not even one has been found in 24h I will conclude that I ask a “ill stated” question
and I will then give " in no particular order’" all the “templates” I used to derived
the knots and the new quizz will be " recreate the correct set : template - knotting"
I hope you will then find a greater interest in the puzzle that will be the last one I
make before some time has elapse as inspiration in me and interest in you seem to be
on the wane. ( not fishing here!)
This is indeed an interesting puzzle! Looking at your diagram for the IGKT logo derived, it does not match the tied knot shown in the photograph. That is a small point however, because the action to “correct” the diagram is simple - we just pull out the buried bight on the left and it will then do what is required. Knowing that the IGKT logo is the basis for the derived knot shown (and using the amended diagram, if I am right) how did the amended diagram come from the original knot? It looks as if the action taken was to extend a bight (in the IGKT logo there are four of them) and then give the bight a twist, followed by laying the twisted bight over onto the knot, re-leading the line to proper crossings over and under as needed. If I am right, then the diagram of the Ocean Plait Mat (I see this one in your Noeuds Faits link as the #22 photo,is this the #-117 in your diagrams?) will have started from an overhand knot, on which two bights are extended, twisted and laid over each other. Also, you have the familiar six-bight thump mat as two of your photos (#13 and #20) which appears to derive from a trefoil knot, but I’ll have to try that one first before claiming it to be so.
This is my first stab at this incredible selection of puzzle pieces and I am grasping at straws I think, so I will continue to follow my logic and try to find the base knot for each of the knots you have shown, together with the base method of deriving all those knots, if that is indeed the right path to choose!
As for making a link to google pictures, this is too difficult to do until I have solved the base puzzle, then derived the knots using the logic I described above, amended as necessary, and then finally I would search the internet to find photos of those knots - phew! Looks like a tough one, so maybe I should try to simplify! Thanks for a most interesting brain-teaser!
Lindsey
Hi Lindsey and all
Mae culpa, maxi mae culpa Lindsey
Igkt Logo BUT igkt FRANCE
Most sorry for the side tracking making it an impossible task.
Ah! Thanks for the clarification - that helps tremendously. So the use of the 10B3L addition to the logo of the IGKT will result in the overlay shape you have shown. The 10B3L derives from the 4B3L IGKT knot by adding more crossings to the original 4B3L TH. Then the original knot is laid under the expanded knot and the two are combined into the new knot! Great, absolutely great! OK - so if that is the case what then are the origins of the other knots, using the same technique of overlaying an expanded knot on the original and then combining their shapes? Now, I’ll have to take a long look at each of the knots you have shown - thank you again for the clarification!
Lindsey
Hi!
Lindsey : you are on the right track.
New objective is to join the template with the knot issued from it
Here are the templates I used to 'derived my knottings.
They are CELTIC (pseudo) knots and links.
Some are true links
Some ar not link and ‘tangle’
Some are grouping of elementary knots.
The trick was to just ‘transform’ them into ‘true’ knots.
But not all the result are satisfactory.
There are othere “celtic design” to be found as ‘primitive’ and ‘derived’
into knots, may be some of you will try their hand at that.
Cheers.
Charles
Here you will find the design-diagram-knot joined together.
Till next time take care.